SF VN "The Next World" seeks Writers

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Jiro Horikoshi
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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer, 1 SFX Artist

#16 Post by Jiro Horikoshi » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:22 am

http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content ... _HMSIC.pdf [especially refer to page 5]

If you're making 6 cpw, you're earning $600 per 10K words written, meaning you're earning $3K for 50K words written. And this is not just rough drafts or first copies--we're talking about 50K quality words edited and proofread, ready for publishing, which essentially qualifies for a short novel. I honestly don't think any skilled professional would work for that rate apart from the fact that it's below the recommended minimum given by Writer's Digest. If the people you claim to know are indeed professionals who can bring weight on their words, they should rightly demand minimum 10 cpw because they've worked hard to deserve that.

On another note, I'll be completely honest with you--SFWA probably isn't a very reliable source to base your standards upon. It might be a great place to share ideas and improve, but by no means does it qualify as a definitive standard-establishing organization. From what I can garner it seems more like an online association of writers of wildly varying skill levels. Yes, I do admit their board do deserve some credit, but whether those qualifications extend to the entire group is something else entirely. I'd also like to add that SFWA is focused heavily on science fiction only, which might not be necessarily representative of the broad range of literary jobs that the more standardized view of Writer's Digest offers.

Just my two cents ;)
Last edited by Jiro Horikoshi on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer, 1 SFX Artist

#17 Post by Winterslice » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:14 pm

The link you posted is not from Reader's Digest. That's _Writer's_ Digest; the two have nothing to do with each other. Writer's Digest is a for-profit magazine owned by F+W Media and connected to a vanity publishing outfit called "bookbaby," selling the usual services to hopefuls. They have far fewer credentials for making standards than a non-profit professional organisation such as SFWA with a wide membership and which is dedicated to the cause of writers making a fair wage.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer, 1 SFX Artist

#18 Post by Jiro Horikoshi » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:14 pm

Sorry, mistyped. Thanks for pointing that out--just edited it!

Mind explaining how writer's digest has
Winterslice wrote:far fewer credentials for making standards than a non-profit professional organisation such as SFWA with a wide membership and which is dedicated to the cause of writers making a fair wage


?

And if anything, SFWA doesn't seem professional at all to me. How is an organization that allows anyone who published three short stories to join their group anything but even remotely professional? The fact that solely sales and not quality is a requirement for joining SFWA forces me to cast doubt on its credibility. Also, it's important to realize that wide membership often times actually leads to a decrease in professionalism. In any case, I would be hesitant to readily apply the suggested standards of a site focused on very narrow genres on a completely different medium. :)

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Jiro Horikoshi
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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer, 1 SFX Artist

#19 Post by Jiro Horikoshi » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:38 pm

EDIT: I'd love to hear why you consider bookbaby to be a "vanity publishing outfit"--I see mostly positive reviews with the worst one being 7 stars out of 10.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer, 1 SFX Artist

#20 Post by Winterslice » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:01 pm

Jiro Horikoshi wrote:Mind explaining how writer's digest has
Winterslice wrote:far fewer credentials for making standards than a non-profit professional organisation such as SFWA with a wide membership and which is dedicated to the cause of writers making a fair wage


?
Certainly. Writer's Digest is a periodical aimed at making money off of aspiring writers. They have a vested interest in overstating the case of what writers make, to make it seem like a more appealing field to get into. In reality it's a rough business. I'm one of maybe three or four people I know whose writing is their sole/primary source of income.

Take this article from the International Association of Media Tie-In Writers where they talk about some industry standard rates, such as major game publishers offering advances of no more than $4-6k: http://iamtw.org/articles/business-part-one-the-deal/

Here's a few more articles about what book publishing actually pays:
http://work.chron.com/average-authors-s ... -7181.html
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2005/02/07 ... iter-make/ (for books traditionally published by major houses, not independent presses -- those figures are much lower)

Or try a quote from Ursula Leguin:
"The huge advances that you hear of are very rare. Most fiction writers can’t live by their writing alone. I spent nearly ten years sending out stories before I got one published. Being a writer almost always means having some kind of paying job too... and hanging in there!"

And if anything, SFWA doesn't seem professional at all to me. How is an organization that allows anyone who published three short stories to join their group anything but even remotely professional? The fact that solely sales and not quality is a requirement for joining SFWA forces me to cast doubt on its credibility. Also, it's important to realize that wide membership often times actually leads to a decrease in professionalism. In any case, I would be hesitant to readily apply the suggested standards of a site focused on very narrow genres on a completely different medium. :)
Ah, no wonder you've completely missed the point of the SFWA, if you don't understand the entry requirements. For short stories, an SFWA member has to have have stories published in professionally-rated markets, meaning major magazines with thousands of subscribers such as Asimov’s Science Fiction, Clarkesworld Magazine, the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, and Orson Scott Card’s InterGalactic Medicine Show. I'll be impressed if you get a story published in one of those. Their 'quality requirement' is pretty high.

This is going to be my last message on the topic. I encourage you to keep trying to find those markets paying 15cpw for first-time writers with no published credits, and let me know when you do, 'cause I'll surely be interested.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 Writer

#21 Post by Ghost #9 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:24 am

As a writer, I have to agree that $0.15 seems pretty high for a standard or average rate, at least for a large project. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just can't imagine that the average indie developer has tens of thousands of dollars set aside for the writing budget alone. An 80,000 word project, for example, would be $12,000 at that rate.

I would love to see the article or statistics that point to this being standard. Obviously, I'm going about this freelance bit all wrong.

To be clear I am by no means claiming that writers don't deserve that sort of rate, or even that there are no writers who earn even more than that. However, I believe it's pretty unlikely for a non-professional commissioned by a small independent developer to earn $0.15 per word.

EDIT: ...I did not see the rest of the conversation on this topic before posting.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" Expanding: 1 SFX Designer, Writer

#22 Post by Winterslice » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:40 pm

Posting another call as we have not yet found the right candidate for this job:

Currently seeking a dedicated, reliable sound designer/foley artist to create sound effects for our cutscenes, strategy and visual novel segments. This position involves a significant contribution to the project and is paid in royalty share.

If you want to know more about the project, we have a brand new demo out, available for download from IndieDB. It's accompanied by a detailed news post with lots of screenshots to show you the progress we've been making.

Main game and demo thread: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 43&t=35511

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" seeks SFX Designer, Artist, Write

#23 Post by Winterslice » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:01 am

Good news! We've been approved to sell on Steam, and are already working on our store page. Looking to fill the last few roles on our roster. Please review the first post and send me a private message to apply.

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Re: SF VN "The Next World" seeks SFX Designer, Writers

#24 Post by Winterslice » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:17 am

We found our artist! Still looking for a good sound person, and any writers who can handle working with some moderate code.

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