[FREE] Anime CG Artist!

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Ryuno
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#31 Post by Ryuno » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:17 pm

Forgive me if this isn't civil enough, but I'm of the opinion the priority of the moderators in a case such as this should be, once proven there was falsehood/contradictory information in the advertisement and this could lead to projects being taken down as well as members being sued over copyright infringement, closing off the thread and inquiring further. Regardless of the argument for or against tracing, to allow for something rooted on deceit to be in here lowers the standard of honesty for the entire community. This isn't a case where information is being given second-hand to moderators, all was discussed publicly and can be verified by anyone with access to the internet.

I am all for open discussion and free speech, but as someone who also moderates a large community forum, at this rate I can't see this ending in any way but having people growing outraged and being banned over it while the person who did ignite the argument walks scot free simply because there is no explicit rule against false advertisement while there is one about being civil, even though only one of these could have people getting in trouble with the law. The lack of transparency in advertisement and outrage over it are not on the same level of an issue, but if both are issues, please reconsider locking down the thread.

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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#32 Post by dfbreezy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:00 pm

Ryuno wrote:Forgive me if this isn't civil enough, but I'm of the opinion the priority of the moderators in a case such as this should be, once proven there was falsehood/contradictory information in the advertisement and this could lead to projects being taken down as well as members being sued over copyright infringement, closing off the thread and inquiring further. Regardless of the argument for or against tracing, to allow for something rooted on deceit to be in here lowers the standard of honesty for the entire community. This isn't a case where information is being given second-hand to moderators, all was discussed publicly and can be verified by anyone with access to the internet.

I am all for open discussion and free speech, but as someone who also moderates a large community forum, at this rate I can't see this ending in any way but having people growing outraged and being banned over it while the person who did ignite the argument walks Scot free simply because there is no explicit rule against false advertisement while there is one about being civil, even though only one of these could have people getting in trouble with the law. The lack of transparency in advertisement and outrage over it are not on the same level of an issue, but if both are issues, please reconsider locking down the thread.
Quite right Ryuno, But you and RotGIE have made a slight misinterpretation of Tale weaver's wording.

You are understanding it as "Tracing and deceit is Okay with us" while from what i can gather, he means "Tracing and deceit may not be expressly wrong, However this is not the forum for that."

If i'm wrong i'm open to corrections. Beside guys, let's not bash on Lemma and it's rules and rather Contact the OP to cordially explain herself. Hopefully there was a misunderstanding somewhere.

And if we're talking Legally, as a lawyer, i can tell you that before you judge someone guilty you must hear both sides. So instead of passing sharp comments ad snide remarks let's hear what OP has to say and the Mods can Decide what to do based on Lemmasoft's rules.

What do you guys think? Would that not be a more peaceful and favorable outcome?

I sincerely hope this matter can be resolved with us biting at each others throats.
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#33 Post by Ryuno » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:12 pm

dfbreezy wrote:
Ryuno wrote:Forgive me if this isn't civil enough, but I'm of the opinion the priority of the moderators in a case such as this should be, once proven there was falsehood/contradictory information in the advertisement and this could lead to projects being taken down as well as members being sued over copyright infringement, closing off the thread and inquiring further. Regardless of the argument for or against tracing, to allow for something rooted on deceit to be in here lowers the standard of honesty for the entire community. This isn't a case where information is being given second-hand to moderators, all was discussed publicly and can be verified by anyone with access to the internet.

I am all for open discussion and free speech, but as someone who also moderates a large community forum, at this rate I can't see this ending in any way but having people growing outraged and being banned over it while the person who did ignite the argument walks Scot free simply because there is no explicit rule against false advertisement while there is one about being civil, even though only one of these could have people getting in trouble with the law. The lack of transparency in advertisement and outrage over it are not on the same level of an issue, but if both are issues, please reconsider locking down the thread.
Quite right Ryuno, But you and RotGIE have made a slight misinterpretation of Tale weaver's wording.

You are understanding it as "Tracing and deceit is Okay with us" while from what i can gather, he means "Tracing and deceit may not be expressly wrong, However this is not the forum for that."

If i'm wrong i'm open to corrections. Beside guys, let's not bash on Lemma and it's rules and rather Contact the OP to cordially explain herself. Hopefully there was a misunderstanding somewhere.

And if we're talking Legally, as a lawyer, i can tell you that before you judge someone guilty you must hear both sides. So instead of passing sharp comments ad snide remarks let's hear what OP has to say and the Mods can Decide what to do based on Lemmasoft's rules.

What do you guys think? Would that not be a more peaceful and favorable outcome?

I sincerely hope this matter can be resolved with us biting at each others throats.
I don't feel I am bashing on Lemma or the mods at all. I like it here, and have been a member since 2013.

From where I stand, it's a simple matter of which option is more likely to prevent further issues. We heard both sides. Their defense was further definitive proof of the contradictions, and mods inquiring further would not require the thread to stay open. Locking it down so people won't keep bumping it with angry comments and unlocking if after contacted through PM a misunderstanding gets cleared is the path of least resistance to ending this.

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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#34 Post by NialGrenville » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:17 pm

I'll just reiterate, while it may be "leading" the witness. I'm not focused on any of Lemma Soft's rules. I'm focused on the legality of the situation. If I was fooled by this, I'd definitely want someone in hot water. Because I am not gonna boil by myself.

I'm in no way saying Lemma is wrong, nor am I saying that TaleWeaver was stating "Tracing and deceit is Okay with us." There are still fine lines that need to be drawn by moderators in a legal sense. I have no ill will towards them, and hope this issue gets resolved peacefully. The thread is locked, or the issues are governed out.

To speak on the terms of hearing out the OP, she has been heard.

"I make this art, do you want to use it?"

This means it belongs to her, regardless of story. So her saying that makes her guilty by acclaiming the photos to herself. Because they add no new aesthetic or context. Therefore it is illegal if proven that they are stolen.

Which our lovely forum members did point out was true.

I'm not saying ban her, I'm not saying burn her at a stake. I'm saying protect the community! No one needs to be destroyed once they figured out that all their hard work goes to nothing.

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." -Luke 2:14

The easiest way to deal with it is communication. Just like Ryuno said. (preferably with a mod)

That is all. Have a lovely day.
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#35 Post by Kkoro » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:44 pm

I don't think tracing is a problem.

But when you trace something and call it your own creation, it's a big problem.

I hope everyone here knows about No Game No Life scandal where the artist traced existing art and turned it into something else. The alterations made were pretty significant, but the tracing was enough for the artist to apologize and give a monetary compensation to the respective artists. Link: http://www.otakutale.com/2014/no-game-n ... ples-work/

It's something that should be taken very seriously in the art business.
So, I hope this issue will get handled accordingly.

*Edited to get my facts straight + typos*
Last edited by Kkoro on Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#36 Post by NialGrenville » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:50 pm

Hey I realize a few of those animes/mangas. Now I feel sick because all those overlapping colors. Ugh! Well, this shows the exact things that happen with stuff like this. They did a darn good job at hiding it too.

(As people comment below the article saying "It's impossible." They are so closely matched, saying it's impossible is like saying the world doesn't have carbon in it.)
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#37 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:32 pm

Let me put two things straight:

First, we have no forum rules against tracing, and we do not have any rules against claiming your works are original even if they are not. In these forums, you are free to make any claims you like as long as they do not constitute attacks on other people.

Second, if you make a claim here that is false, you also are not protected from people calling you out on it. We have a Public Discussion rule, and we take it very seriously.

So when I said that this thread was no place to discuss the implications of traced art and possible copyright infringement, I meant it. This thread should revolve on the opening poster's art and her services, including whether it may be a result of tracing or not. I think that point has been sufficiently discussed now.

I received several abuse messages telling me that this thread should be locked because the opening poster was advertising traced art. I wanted to make clear that we do not lock threads for that - thus my first posting here. In fact, I think by keeping this thread open, everyone has had ample opportunity for public discussion. That also includes discussing why you think it is a good or bad idea to rely on someone's services.

So once again - keep this discussion civil, and no one will need to be banned.
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Re: [FREE] Anime CG Artist!

#38 Post by indoneko » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:23 pm

While I can understand Ryuno's suggestion about locking this tread (as what usually preferred in a big art forum, especially on facebook forum/pages where literally thousands of comments can flood the thread within hours), I'm actually glad that the moderator (Taleweaver) didn't close this thread to give OP a fair chance to explain herself - either to be honest about the mistake and apologize, OR to actually give us some proper explanations.

Hayel, if you read this post, please come forward and speak up. You could also PM me or moderator if you feel more comfortable that way. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong; even if you've made a mistake, I believe that our forum members are more willing to overlook it once everything has been cleared up. So, will you please be more open about this?

If you just keep silent (even though your log shows that you've been visiting this forum everyday) - people might start to think that you've actually been trolling...
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