Super High School Level LP (Dangan Ronpa)

[papillon]

Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not a 'whodunnit'. You're not supposed to sit down and solve the whole case and it was never intended to work that way, you're supposed to face each puzzle as it comes and hang on for the ride.

>"Yeah, he had the most opportunity, but neither motive nor even a bit of motivation aside from the secret revealed."

I dunno if you read any of the player commentary or just the official updates - most people were reasonably convinced that it was going to turn out to be a gay/trans panic killing, and as such, finding out the motive was something totally different was a huge relief.

Personally I never finished even the first Phoenix Wright game because

I was pissed off that they killed a likable NPC who I'd expected to be recurring, and were shrugging it off as unimportant. (Mia, Maya, I can't even remember which name is which anymore.) In a DESPAIR game like Dangan Ronpa I expect a lot of people to get killed off and it doesn't annoy me, but with the jokey way the crimes were being treated up until that point, suddenly killing someone we knew and liked made it all not funny anymore.

[Taleweaver]

Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not a 'whodunnit'. You're not supposed to sit down and solve the whole case and it was never intended to work that way, you're supposed to face each puzzle as it comes and hang on for the ride.

That's what I dislike. All that detective work the game makes you do is essentially in vain. Maybe I'm just suffering a classic case of I Am Disappoint because I expected this to be a really crazy version of Ace Attorney.

"I dunno if you read any of the player commentary or just the official updates - most people were reasonably convinced that it was going to turn out to be a gay/trans panic killing, and as such, finding out the motive was something totally different was a huge relief."

I read the comments, and I was glad as well that it wasn't that gay panic murder. Because that "gay panic murder" wouldn't have made any sense - people thought that might be possible because "big manly people like Oowada might be afraid of being gay, and if something comes out that makes them believe they have actual homosexual tendencies, they may be prone of killing". This wasn't alluded to even once and would have been an even greater bullshit motive than the one that was actually used.

With the "evidence" provided, the case could just as well have revealed the Doujin Guy as the killer in another surprise twist. Have the Doujin Guy make the blunder with the jersey color, then have him enter the gym in order to work out with the motive to survive when a killer comes for him. Make the entire death of the Hacker Crossdresser an accident (Doujin Guy is clumsy as hell, stumbles with the dumbbell and hits the Hacker Crossdresser in the head). Doujin Guy freaks out, and in order to hide his identity, he takes the victim into the girl's room because a) everybody believe victim is a girl anyway and b) he as a male will be less likely to be fingered that way. The rest goes as planned; the sauna scene (another script silliness; the magnetic cards are fireproof but not heat-proof >.<) is another red herring. A case of "I ended up killing", and not murder, but it's not necessary to murder someone, only kill. And if Doujin Guy already killed someone, why not try to get out of that deathtrap?

Really, it's easy to make up new killer/victim connections like that if the game doesn't allow the player to find out stuff that actually holds relevance to the identity of the killer.

As for Ace Attoney, the Mia death (hardly a spoiler; happens right in the beginning of Case 2 of game 1) is one of the main criticisms of the entire story, especially because it bears almost no relevance - Mia is still with Phoenix every time he needs her, and more often than not as Deus ex Machina. However, the mysteries itself are well-written, solvable by the player before they are solved by Phoenix, and more often than not, you know everything that happen, can prove that it happen, all evidence points to only one possible perpetrator, and you still can't convince court to convict the guy because one tiny, little details still casts a shadow of a doubt over the entire case, and you desperately struggle to somehow remove that final doubt. That's what I consider satisfactory in a game.

[papillon]

Well, I spoilered it because it was a surprise to *me* and I couldn't remember how early in it happened. All I remember is that it gave my enjoyment a solid knock, and I found it hard to keep focused on the game after that and eventually quit playing. It's been sitting in a stack of 'should get back to eventually maybe' for years since.

[MaiMai]

Whoa sudden debate while I'm away.

This game is wonderfully anime and I love it for all it's craziness. You have some pretty high expectations Taleweaver But you still bring up some pretty good points. Dangan Ronpa is a fun romp regardless regardless of the strength and weaknesses of the murder mystery solving aspect. I mostly like the game for it's character interactions and sweet soundtrack and I'm really looking forward to knowing what the hell is up with the Academy and Monobear! It almost makes me want to change my avatar into that adorable bastard upupupupupu.

I will have to disagree with you about how having the Super High School Level Doujin author being a possible surprise twist killer for chapter 2 though. He's a doujin author not someone who would go near dumbbells. He's too goony for exercise pffff. It would kind of cheapen the story for me and I found the explanation for that murder was much more satisfactory and really sad. I was getting attached to Mondo and Chihiro.

We still got four more chapters to go! I'm staying with this until the end!

[Taleweaver]

I will have to disagree with you about how having the Super High School Level Doujin author being a possible surprise twist killer for chapter 2 though. He's a doujin author not someone who would go near dumbbells. He's too goony for exercise pffff.

Well, Mondo was a motorbike gang leader with a strong sense of samurai honor - not someone who'd murder a helpless person trusting him. He's too strong for that sort of behavior... oh, sorry, I forgot that he wasn't strong at all but actually secretly weak, which was another character trait that came out of nowhere. Mr. Doujn Guy could just as well be secretly a master at sumo wrestling, or secretly Monokuma, or secretly wanting to work out. Actually, it isn't unusual for fat people to wish to be in better shape but be too ashamed of their own bodies to go work out in public. Imagine being an overweight guy in a fitness center full of slim, sporty people looking at you and laughing at your bad shape behind your back. Of course you wouldn't want anybody to look at you while you're exercising, except if it's the only other tiny, scrawny person who looks as though she doesn't belong here as well.

The point about "that person would never do that" is exactly what Dangan Ronpa does wrong. The Idol coldly planning to murder someone and frame someone else for it is hardly covered by the personality traits she showed before the murder, or is it?

It would kind of cheapen the story for me and I found the explanation for that murder was much more satisfactory and really sad.

With what happened in the last chapter, the story is already cheapened for me a lot. And the fact that it's sad doesn't change that it's bad writing in my book.

Me, I wouldn't be surprised if the person controlling Monobear was actually

the fashion girl, who isn't really dead but had somehow exchanged herself with a blood-filled RealDoll, or maybe the dead person was actually her twin sister and not her. That's exactly the sort of nonsense I'm expecting the game to pull now.

[MaiMai]

To be honest, the Doujin Guy being someone who wants to be strong would be just as out of nowhere as Mondo being secretly weak willed. The latter is more believable to me and it's too well established that Doujin Guy is as otaku as it gets. He wants his animes dammit! We'll have to see what else he has character wise though and hopefully chapter three will show us more especially since he's on the title card.

As for the Idol... Really? I could tell a mile away that she was crazy as hell. I think you need to reread the first chapter, Maizono's sweetness towards Naegi is hardly sincere. She did say she'd do ANYTHING to protect her friends/career.

Addendum: Also, in light of a recent update, I'd have to say that Mondo's motivations are definitely not out of nowhere as you think. I think a lot of information is there for the player, it just depends on what choices you make regarding who Naegi interacts with.

[Taleweaver]

Sorry, have to disagree:

As for the Idol... Really? I could tell a mile away that she was crazy as hell. I think you need to reread the first chapter, Maizono's sweetness towards Naegi is hardly sincere. She did say she'd do ANYTHING to protect her friends/career.

As though there weren't a million other reasons for her behavior except for being "crazy as hell": being suddenly locked in with a bunch ob weirdos, being threatened with death herself, seeing that only two people around her look trustworthy or even half-way normal at all - Naegi and Leon and desperately trying to find someone to stick to. All these are legitimate reasons for her behavior. And the "I'd do anything to..." part? Big deal. You can give each of the characters a motive like this. Leon "would to anything to stop playing baseball", for example. Premediated murder is something big. And stabbing someone to death who's known as a top sportsman while your own physical abilities are only above average? What sort of plan is that when you have obvious victims like Chihiro or the Goon around.

The plot so far is really, really weak, which is a pity because the characters are wonderfully quirky. I really hope Case 3 will be better.