Dragon Age

[dstarsboy]

Pre-ordered! Thanks for the info on the upgrade deal.

[Riviera]

Preordered this a few months ago, and CANNOT WAIT!

... I only just realized this (because I'm horribly dense), but Aveline... didn't Leliana tell a story about a famous female chevalier named Aveline? I wonder if there's some kinda connection there? Even if it's just that her mom liked the name because of the story?

That's rather neat!

[Aleema]

I think we can strongly suspect Aveline's story has some connection with Aveline. I would think, since she's so young, that she's not the real Aveline since bards are already singing her tale around the world. Not to mention the tale outright says she died. But I do see the mirrored "born a large and ugly baby" (SEE? She has to not be a sex object you PERVERTS) and her being a warrior despite there being few women ones. I'm vastly interested in her, and I'm so glad Bioware is making her a companion.

[papillon]

Unfortunately despite what I said about the sequel being more inclusive one of their longtime staff has gone off on huge rants about how DARE people ask them to include any sort of racial diversity, REAL GAMERS don't care about that. (so I guess the players who were asking the question in the first place are fake?)

[Aleema]

Where do you see that?

[papillon]

I heard it over here. I don't actually read the bioware forums, though, so I may be missing context, I'm just glancing through stories that come up.

(And this sort of thing is one of the reasons why an entirely different developer elsewhere today was recommending that people who work for companies but aren't trained in dealing with customers should stay out of forums.)

[Aleema]

No, that's more or less the full context. I've voiced how I felt about Gaider (head writer) and the other devs openly brawling with forum members with the marginalization excuse. But most people on the forum just want to hang out with the devs, so they're afraid pointing out these incidents will make them slip away. I say, yes, please go away. You're ruining the game by showing me how much of a dick the staff is.

[gekiganwing]

Just yesterday, bought a used copy of DA:O for 360. I might give it a try in the next few days. Rather worried about the following potential outcomes:

1) I won't be able to understand the gameplay, and I will have made poor use of twenty dollars.

2) If I enjoy the game, then that will mean I won't enjoy my other fannish interests any longer.

Realistically, I worry too much. But it's tough for me to convince myself that I have not already betrayed my old fandoms.

[Aleema]

DAO is not a waste of $20, since it gives you a lot of play time hours. It's heavily rooted in story and choices, just like a VN, but it also has that RPG aspect that comprises a lot of it. Thing about Bioware's games is that they are NOT hardcore RPG games. Dragon Age is pretty straight forward in my book, and in the next game it gets even simpler. Of course, if something confuses you, don't just rage quit and lament $20 -- ask for help! Go create your character and then see how you feel. (You get to pick what race, class, origin they have and how they look!!)

[LVUER]

There is no a game that is for everyone. Or not everyone will enjoy even a greatest game in history. And AFAIK, gekiganwing is pretty strict in his choice of game. Personally, I don't really enjoy Dragon Age... heck, I even don't enjoy most Western RPGs... But a good game is a good game and I do admit Dragon Age is a good game.

[sayuri]

Reading through that blog post on racial diversity I'm confused on one thing... I thought the world was based on Europe? Antiva is Spain, Orlais is France, and Ferelden is the UK. That's why I never questioned the predominately white population. Of course there are blacks and asians in European countries now but Dragon Age isn't set in modern times. Whatever though, I care more about what the characters have to say than what they look like.

Now to completely contradict what I just said... FENRIS *drool*. I believe my loyalty as an Alistair fangirl will be tested, lol. Sidenote, even though she annoyed the hell out of me at first, I really liked Leliana. Way more than Morrigan, in fact. Especially after her DLC . Totally solidified my love of rouges.

[papillon]

*shrug* Even in historical times, people did travel occasionally. Not as much as they do now, and it was much harder to do, but it wasn't completely unheard of - it's not silly for there to be some such people even in a game that's actually set in historical Europe, which this isn't. It's much sillier for there to be mages, elves, and dwarves.

When people start making the 'accuracy' argument they also often end up arguing that the only female characters allowed should be barmaids and slaves... Sure, there are a lot more female warriors in Dragon Age than there were in historical Europe, but that also makes the setting much more fun for female players, and it doesn't actually hurt the men. It's the same thing - there are players who aren't white who want to feel welcome in the world they're playing in.

From a creative standpoint I understand the arguments about world design and I certainly wouldn't want all fictional worlds to be homogenous. But if there are tons of fantasy games where you have to be white and/or surrounded by white, and ~none of the opposite, you can see how it starts feeling unfair, even though NO individual game is actually responsible for the general situation.

... Personally if I were writing Dragon Age I would have made the elves drow, but that would probably have opened up a whole other mess of issues. I just think it would have been interesting! Not because of the color so much as because of the traditional associations - I think players would have reacted differently to the 'slave race' issue if the race were one that was traditionally thought of as bad, rather than one that most fantasy fans would recognise as 'obviously' good.

[Aleema]

^ Agree. It's Thedas, not Europe.

The DLC companion has been revealed!!

Sebastian Vael, exiled prince.
"Adventure alongside Sebastian Vael, an archer of noble birth, as he seeks revenge for the brutal murder of his family."
Basically, just Nathaniel Howe with a different name. Still, all we know about him is his brief summary and weapon of choice, so hopefully he'll be unique (and not just a blatant apology to fangirls HE'S NOT THE SAME GUY IT DON'T WORK THAT WAY).

But ... diggin' the accent and the cool haircut. More boy-meat for the fangirl train.

You can still get him for FREE if you pre-order now. He'll cost $7 after Jan. 11th.

In other news: GAIDER IS STEALING ALL MY SHIT.

[Riviera]

I'm just glad to see that there is hope for a romance option that is not a dwarf.

Don't get me wrong, this would be great if I could play a dwarf lass.. but as it is it's not something I'd really go for. I'm weird like that.

Ehhh, I've spent some time on the BW forums and sadly enough the general populace thereof makes me completely understand why some of the devs snap the way they do. There are a very large amount of "we deserve everything we want" types there, who view the company as their own personal wish-granters. When they don't get what they want, they respond by treating the company as if it's a sack of crap.

I'd rather the company make games that make them happy, not make games that had to be made to fulfill demands for political correctness. I mean, they do a lot more for it than a great deal of companies. Give em time and the things you'd like to see from them will develop into their own stories. They're the only company I've seen that actually has a customer base that asks for these things. Which is a point in their favor, if you think about it.

People also seem to forget that DAO had a very long development time, and not everything was made as well as BW says they would have liked it to have been. This is why DA2 has changed up a lot of things.

[Aleema]

People are making demands because the developers are making themselves available. If they didn't openly reply to posts, then people wouldn't directly address them (as much). The more you interact with the fanbase, the more comfortable it will be in sharing/planting their ideas. They've caused this problem themselves by jumping head first into the cesspool that is the anonymous internet, and then start flailing a weapon or two because they don't like what they find. I agree that a game developer should make a game that makes them happy, but if you look at Wade and Herren from DAO, you'll see the analogy for Bioware's relationship with EA. They AREN'T making the games they want. They AREN'T perfectly happy with their work. It's still work. They're outright telling us that they CAN'T do things because it's not marketable. Herren wouldn't let Wade make the armor he wants because it would put them out of business. And if you commission him twice, it does.

So all this BS about "it's Bioware's story" and flowers and daisys like someone needs to fight for their vision or something is wrong. They can't have their vision, because it is no one person's game. There are too many visions for there to be a sole dream game that making a suggestion is tarnishing. There are too many people with their hands in the cookie jar to rightfully call the jar anyone's in particular, or to say what cookies are allowed in that jar, since there are already so many different kinds. So while I respect a developer's vision for a game, since I am one, it's really hard for me to not consider Brioware's games OUR games as well, considering how much they market towards what's profitable. That's not a romantic game design decision, that's a business. We demand, they give. They spoil us. If we're rotten children, they're the bad parents who created us.

Now on to something completely different ...

Don't get me wrong, this would be great if I could play a dwarf lass.. but as it is it's not something I'd really go for. I'm weird like that.

I agree. If I could be a dwarf, Varric is the sexiest damn dwarf I've seen in this whole series. I never finished any of my dwarf playthoughs on DAO, though ... Of course, a LI would've persuaded me differently.
I doubt Sebastian is an LI ... but I also doubted him being a DLC character begin with. You can see him in screenshots of the whole party for a while now. And I never saw Kasumi or whats his face from ME2 before they released. I wonder if they just pulled an existing recruit to tempt sales ...? Nah ... DLC have to be less cool from other companions in some way, 2 side missions or not. Like in ME2, you could recruit them anytime and immediately. And pretty much just "hey I'm here to be in your party thx."
Fenris I can almost guarantee is a LI because Gaider is writing him, and he wrote Alistair and Zevran. Which makes me happy pants.