Dragon Age

[Aleema]

Dude, there are much worse spoilers than no 4th act. As story tellers, should we know that most stories are 3 acts, anyway? Also, Cassandra says at the VERY beginning that you're missing and the world is in peril.

[LVUER]

But there's possibilities that "you are missing" part also uncovered during the game (meaning the game ends with you're being found again or something like that). And it is important to know how many acts are there, since we're know when the story will ends. Kinda like when watching movies, if you take a look at the remaining time, you would know when will the final conflict happen.

Yeah, of course there are other spoiler that are even worse than this spoiler... but spoiler is still a spoiler, isn't it? But it's ok, it's not like I hate Samu-kun or anything, besides internet is a place full of spoiler anyway...

[Samu-kun]

W-well... sdhgnuhignoirwgjiov g90wjieo v ah hell it's covered up now even though pretty much all of the damage has been done already.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

well, albeit i have only ~40% completion, I can say not few things (no spoilers, be assured):

First and foremost: Mission accomplished. Now dating sim elements are established on mainstream western RPG.

then on the specs, what I mainly chagrin is the rather slooow check of the DA:O saves for the storyline import, and this midway in the intro, during the char creation.

Second, the slowdowns of the engine: for what I noticed, I guess is more an path-finding issue for the NPC, I noticed occasionally spectacular wall-bonking of NPCs, and the slowdown tend to happen always in zig-zaging areas (mainly the fork of the port, whose together with the low town is the maps I like most (everyone whose known Naples known why )

Third, the issue of recycled maps: Aside the motivated cases (there's dungeons one visit at least twice, the bonepit mine for example) and the cases of pasting together unconnected maps (a trick used in the days when memory was an issue, used, for example, in more than two Ultimas) some maps are obviously abused and the ugliness is that in not few cases the maps are "reconfigured" closing doors and passages, whose screw the use of the HUD minimap and the map. And I found this rather annoying (mainly because I'm highly tactical in my approach to battles, and I like much the exploring side of *RPG)

On the positive sides, the putting every management function on one button (I use the PS3) is really convenient, albeit I dislike the lack of management of NPC equipment, albeit Varric's X-bow is definitively bordering the game-breaking level, put him on some vantage point and in the most cases one can relax on the chair watching the quasi-automatic critter removal

I guess is enough for now...

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Aleema]

What's ~40% completion? I mean, what do you THINK it is? My biggest peeve right now for DA2 reviews is that the reviewers don't finish the game before judging it. I can see why a lot of people would be "WTF?" during Act 1 because the main quest for it is "there is no main quest". It's a bad first impression, and those are pretty important. Except I didn't see it as bad at all, but I can see why some people would. It's just rather long for not having a main quest. What was I rambling about? Oh yeah, reviewing the game before you finish it. I don't like it necessarily. Non-story/character stuff is most acceptable to talk about, but I found that my first impressions of the battle system and everything was actually really improved by the end of the game. Things I was "WTF IT'S GOOONE" about were really like "meh didn't miss it" by the end. It was just complaining to complain, without actually knowing if it affected gameplay or not. If you ask people who nitpick about it, they'll admit it was a good game -- just that it wasn't DA:O2. That was Awakening. New game guuuyyyzzz.

I still wouldn't call it a dating sim, though yes, it does treat romance better than previous games. It's pretty linear. You pick your guy/gal and go. It doesn't matter if they hate you or love you -- you'll get their scenes. You have to REALLY try to screw up a relationship by somehow waffling their relationship in the middle between friend and rival. But they basically design this not to happen. So really, I wouldn't say it's much of a sim at all. Just another subplot, like they were before. They have a higher production value, that's for sure!

If you hadn't noticed, I'm a rabid loyalist defender of DA2. ^_^ Sowwy.

I think the only argument that everyone really agrees on is the reused dungeons. I agree that the mini-map was misleading, but I figured out what was happening rather quickly, and I didn't care. I disagree that they reappeared in such a frequency that I got upset or offended by it, though. It was just a "oh, I remember you. lol" kind of recognition. Not "OMG NOT THIS ONE AGAINAANDG" because most of the stuff happens in the city, to be honest. And I'm all for reducing that 20GB monstrosity that first game was.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Aside my bewilderment that you, mrs. Aleema, have missed the spirit and matter of my recension, whose is a *technical* recension, about the most-controversial glitches and design/mechanics choices, and this is IMHO feasible about at estimated 40% of the game (I don't think that the chapter count counts as spoiler...) and 60+ hours (gross) of playing.

I'm not a munchkin but in my overtacticism and micromanagement I always strive to the ideal "set teh party and orders, sit back, light a cigar and press X for enjoying the show of the quick dispatching, better if OHKO, of the big badass boss" hence my appreciation of "put Varric and his X-bow up the stairs or balcony and let him do major damage"

On the mission accomplished, let's be objective, in 2005/6 at the dawn of this forum and Ren'Py we will have ever imagined that dating sim elements will reach mainstream WRPG ?

Of course, aside the immense backlog of ren'py games and RPG, both W and J awaiting at least one ending, I will give a true recension, that is, one about story, plot elements, overall graphics, tactics, item/ztat management, maps and storytelling. and this is a different animal from a technical recension as that above.

Hope to have cleared the meaning of my recension.

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Aleema]

No, I understand > Technical discussion is just as permitted as it was when just the Demo was released. If you see my review from the demo compared to my review after finishing the game, all of my little whines and moans are basically gone. My only gripe is the lack of ability to ressurect members outside of an expensive, rare potion and Anders. And then, even if a mod came out to fix that, I wouldn't because it definitely made battles more tactical.

What I was saying in my overblown first paragraph is that I didn't stop playing in the middle of the game to review it, and it was for the better. Most of the complaints I see on the Bioware forum and metacritic are people who didn't even get out of the 1st act. You'll likely feel the same, however, when you finish with these types of criticisms.

I asked about the 40% thing because there is a universal surprise at how quick the game ends, so I didn't want you to get to the end thinking you're at 50% completion. I finished the game in 35 hours (but I also replayed it twice, going on third, immediately afterwards, which is unheard of for me.) I also didn't want you to think 40% meant halfway through Act 1, just to make sure you gave the game enough time before judging it. (Again, even my view of the *technical* aspects changed from beginning to end.) Is this review in the light of DA:O, or did you not play Origins? Since you mentioned you're backlogged.

Also, in 2005/6, there were several Bioware games that had romancable characters? They were not as cool to look at, or have a big "does she like you?" relationship bar in the game menu, but they existed in about the same manner. They've certainly improved with time, though.

edit: Also want to apologize if I came off aggressive. I have a LOT of pent-up anger towards a specific demographic of players who rag on DA2 without finishing, or without so much as playing it at all. Perhaps it's just the way I played it, truly role-playing, completely unspoiled by the internet (I honestly never came on the internet while playing), that the whole experience was that like a masterpiece book or movie. When I am moved to such an extreme like that, having thoroughly enjoyed the game along the way, and I see people attacking it, a switch flips on in me. And I become rather catty. So my overreaction to your well-put post was a reaction to something bigger than you, so I apologize.

[papillon]

Most of the complaints I see on the Bioware forum and metacritic are people who didn't even get out of the 1st act.

For formal reviews it's unprofessional to quit early, but for people who bought the game, if they hate it it's not unreasonable for them to quit. It IS still unreasonable for them to think they know everything about the game, though, obvs!

Formal reviews quitting early can be a big problem with some games though. There's a now somewhat infamous failed rpg called Lionheart where the company plain ran out of money making the game. The first several hours of the game are pretty good, filled with subquests and dialog and plot details and all sorts of things, let down only by the combat being not quite up to par. Then suddenly at one point they ran out of money and dropped all the writers and there's nothing but combat from there until the end of the game. And the combat still sucks. So you got TOTALLY different reviews from people who played the game for a few hours and went "Yeah, good game, reminds me of BG2" and people who tried to finish it and went "WTF IS THIS SHIT".


(as for me I need to barrel onwards to see if there's any hope of getting MD done-ish by the end of may, so I won't be looking at the game until after taht at least)

[Aleema]

I'm not saying people shouldn't quit the game, really. I would like people to give things a chance, really, but I understand when stuff just isn't fun, and games should be fun. If you quit, however, you should think twice about reviewing it. Especially any character/story aspects. I quit Dirge of Cerebus an hour into play. The tutorial made me want to shoot myself. It was an awful experience for me. But my first reaction wasn't to hop on the internet and bash Square-Enix or write a rant on their forums. But I realized that my dislike for the game was based on things like taste, and to a lesser extent, expectation. And of course, money wasted. If you don't like a movie -- please walk out of the theater, that's your prerogative! But what right do you really have to review it and start a crusade against it? You didn't give the movie its chance to tell its story, to make connections, to show you want all that crap was about, push past your biases, etc.

But yes, even official game reviewers try to cut corners, which is why I like to make sure they mention how they felt about the ending somewhere. Which they usually do when it's bad. xD But I wonder why all the official DA2 reviews are good, but the user reviews are not? The first thing that comes to mind is "oh Bioware paid off the reviewers", or like you brought up, only played a portion of it (though I doubt that, any time selection of the game would reflect the user complaints).

And yeah, you might wanna get work done before tackling this game. I was down for more than a week. (Completed the game in 3-4 days though. But I was like ... traumatized or something. xD)

[Aleema]

Tycho from Penny Arcade made this post defending DA2 today, and I gave him a hearty round of applause after reading the last line. That's so true. The things I felt as a player and as a character combined -- I was her for a long time, as since the game wasn't as unfairly balanced towards a specific demographic, I was allowed to immerse myself in that game without being constantly dragged out with every Desire Demon I saw. The beginning aimlessness, the panic, the confusion -- all things that I, as player felt, was also felt by my character. That is the game. ;_;

[kantocan1]

Pathing issues? What Pathing issues? I haven't seen any on my PC yet.
The worst recycled dungeon would be the mines, it seems like almost every cave system has them
For a list:
Killing those rogue Qunari in the maze
Exploring Bone Pit Mine
Exploring other Bone Pit Mine
Going through caves leading that Sarrebas that the Chantry woman gave you
Other random caves. I forgot the rest.

I actually enjoyed the absence of a big main quest where you knew something bad was going to happen like with the Archdemon in DA:O. Less choice is better than two choices going off in completely different directions because it'd make the sequel even harder to make. I thought DA2 was better than it's predecessor, combat seemed even more fluid, but I didn't like the body dismemberment where all the parts suddenly seemed to split up and the face was all bald.

[Aleema]

The caves was the biggest map they had, though. It's not like you explored the entirity of the cave each time you were sent to it. Sometimes you just popped into it for one corridor and popped out the other side (sundermount). It's not like it was the exact same thing, which is why I don't get how frustrated people can be with it. It's just simply noticing that it's the same area, and you might go to the same place 3 times in one game, but not back-to-back. Also, people seem to forget there are at least 2 versions every location they send you to: there are 2 caves, 2 houses, 2 warehouses, 2 underground passages, etc.

I can, however, relate to what happens when you kill a solider with their helmets popping off and their headmesh turns default. o_O
I only had one pathing issue ever in the game, and it was when Anders got stuck behind a lamp post in a cave. Thankfully, you can switch to any character any time, so I didn't have to run all the way back to unstick him. And then they run super fast to catch up with you. The dog was by far the least predictable in movement, but it's bonus DLC.

[Riviera]

My only movement issues were the slight jittering when I ran through town (probably my own hardware's fault), and the times I would run into corners to inspect something or talk to someone and then have to shove my group out of the way so I could escape.

It's like they were purposely trying to corner me for a quick mugging!... Or something horribly dirty.

>_>

<_<

[Aleema]

If you bought Dragon Age 2, Bioware is letting you download Mass Effect 2 for free.
I guess this is that "apology" people have been demanding. -_-

Edit: Correction, purchasing DA2 on any platform is available for ME2 on the PC. Available until May 1st.

[papillon]

Huh. Wow.

I've never had any interest in Mass Effect and haven't played either game, but I have to admit there's some temptation in climbing in on this one. I mean... hard to argue with the price, no?