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Discuss how to use the Ren'Py engine to create visual novels and story-based games. New releases are announced in this section.
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shaja
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#181 Post by shaja » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:04 am

I use and am pretty happy with Dokuwiki on my departmental documentation server at work.

It's implemented in PHP, uses the filesystem for storage instead of a database, and has various plugins available for markup, including DocBook format - I can see how that would be useful for exporting contents for a local documentation copy.

I see that there's also a syntax highlighting plugin available, although I haven't used it and I'm not sure how hard it would be to extend the python highlighting for Ren'Py.

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#182 Post by monele » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:02 pm

I've used Pmwiki for a project of mine where I needed to apply rights. I don't know about code syntax highlighting though :/

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#183 Post by Shii » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:31 pm

monele wrote:Woop, another user of TiddlyWiki ^^. The problem with this, is that you can't really access it from anywhere and not two person can edit a part of it at the same time. If you overwrite with someone's version, you lose your own edits :/...
Actually, you can save a TiddlyWiki like a normal HTML file, it's very handy. And I don't think edit conflicts will happen all that often for a reference site...

http://wakaba.c3.cx/ uses TiddlyWiki for its documentation. (There's another well-designed software page.)

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#184 Post by monele » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:13 pm

Mm, interesting... does this mean this wakaba doc is editable online ? Or does one still have to download it, edit, and then send the results to the author ?

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#185 Post by Shii » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:15 pm

You can edit it online or save it to reference offline.

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#186 Post by Piroshiki » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:24 pm

It took a little more time than expected, but I finished the in-game Eileen graphics... unless something needs to be changed/corrected/improved, that is. So it's kind of like a beta I guess?
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#187 Post by PyTom » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:13 pm

Wow. This look is spot-on, right on the money. I have checked this into the Ren'Py subversion repository.

http://www.bishoujo.us/trac/browser/renpy/trunk/demo2

the various 9a_*.png files, for those people who don't want to download the zip.

The only issue I have is that the happy expression might not be happy enough. It's sort of a neutral-happy... Eileen should be (for some inexplicable reason) enthused about Ren'Py. I think the eyebrows are good... but would be it be possible for the mouth to curve a little more?

I love the way you drew new eyes for all three images. It really makes the emotions come alive.

-----

Now that we have new character art, it's time to start thinking seriously about the new simple and demo games. I think my "pictures I took of Washington DC" have seen better days, and it's time for some new art. I think we want to pick a theme for that art.

I have an idea, but I think I'll throw it to the group for a few days to see if anyone can beat me.
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#188 Post by mikey » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:23 pm

Holy mom! Eileen is beautiful! (she's a bit more grown-up as well...)
Wonderful work.

Hmmm, maybe it's good to first agree on how many small sample games and what they should do - and what the next demo game(s) should do, or show. The story is secondary IMO. And it's always much better to think about it when its goals are set.

I'd say we should have for instance
- sample KN (text, multiple BGs and characters - no effects, nothing.)
- sample KN (transitions and other effects)
- sample GAME (simple game with one 3-choice menu leading to 3 endings)
- and so on...
and
- demo game

Or maybe it's the wrong procedure? :?

EDIT: Oh, to be honest, I find the happy Eileen quite happy... I mean the vhappy, she looks thrilled IMO

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#189 Post by Jake » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:54 pm

New Eileen graphics == awesome!
mikey wrote: I'd say we should have for instance
...
- sample GAME (simple game with one 3-choice menu leading to 3 endings)
I'd suggest at least two levels of branching - experience suggests that some people can be remarkably... specific (as opposed to generic) in the way that they learn things they're apprehensive about, and a lot of people are apprehensive about programming. I'd worry that a single level of branching might leave some people only thinking that they know how to write single-branch games, perhaps unsure where to put the menu for a second choice, whether they can have labels that don't terminate the game, or other silly non-problems. Demonstrating that a second level of branching follows exactly the same pattern would help break that, IMO.

Something simple, though, all the same, perhaps:

Choice (1, 2, 3)
1 -> End
2 -> Choice (4, 5)
3 -> End
4 -> End
5 -> End
Server error: user 'Jake' not found

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#190 Post by PyTom » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:34 pm

My current thinking is that as part of the Ren'Py 6 distribution, there will be two games. (There will also be a "launcher" program/game that launches the other two games and various tools, but let's not talk about that for now.)

The first is the "simple" game. This should be a fairly minimal game, that showcases how easy it is to write a game using the basic Ren'Py features. The key here should be to make it as simple as possible... short, so someone can comprehend it easily, and with the minimal use of features required to make a game.

I'd say it consists mostly of say statements, a single menu, and various other statements to manage images and transitions. It should have 2 endings, just to show how a multi-ending game can be made. It should probably tell a _really short_ story.

The key though, is short. I want a new user to be able to read and understand it quickly, and realize that's _all_ they need to do to have a working Ren'Py game.

The second game is the "demo" game. This game will have two parts (selectable through menus). The first is a tutorial, in which Eileen will walk the user through making a Ren'Py game. Ideally, this would use the "short" game as the example game.

The second part of the "demo" game is a systematic demonstration of Ren'Py's features. This should show off what Ren'Py can do, and also doubles as a way for me to test Ren'Py before a release.

It's important, though, that the systematic demonstration be better organized. I'm thinking we want to put each part of the demo into its own file, and show the filename that we're demonstrating on screen somewhere. So if the user wants to see the text demo, they can open the file (say) demo_text.rpy, and not be confused by extraneous information.

I think it makes sense to have other tutorials, focusing in on specific features. But these can be distributed separately, as we don't want to make the distribution a _huge_ download... and we don't want to resort to advanced features, like messing with config.searchpath to duplicate data between directories.

Another interesting idea would be to come up with a series of screencasts, showing people how to make Ren'Py games.
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#191 Post by monele » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:47 am

Wanted to say that Eileen is gorgeous o_O... I love this coloring technique!

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#192 Post by Alessio » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:02 pm

Piroshiki wrote:I finished the in-game Eileen graphics...
Gor-ge-ous! Wow! It's beyond me how somebody could possibly draw and colour in such a beautiful manner. (Will this Eileen be used for the new Ren'Py logo too?)
PyTom wrote:This should be a fairly minimal game, that showcases how easy it is to write a game using the basic Ren'Py features.
Its main story file should also be really short and simple so that it's easy to use it as a template (as opposed to the current demo script that takes quite a while to 'clean up' when starting to work on a new VN).

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#193 Post by Watercolorheart » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:09 pm

monele wrote:Wanted to say that Eileen is gorgeous o_O... I love this coloring technique!
What I was just thinking was: I wonder how I can acheive this coloring style in Photoshop?

Perhaps the artist can give a brief description of the technique? Is this acheived by making a solid block of color for the area that you're thinking of, and then going back and shading it, perhaps?

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#194 Post by RedSlash » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:02 pm

The new demo is much better with the new graphics. I really like the new Eileen and I think she does look happy enough. Now the only problem here is to match the styles of everything else with the new artwork style. When I look at it now, I actually think our current demo would be quite professional if we matched the rest of the graphics and uped the presentation a bit. I'm not sure if we're keeping the demo however.

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#195 Post by PyTom » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:25 pm

I would expect to keep parts of the demo, and rewrite other parts. The new one should be well-commented in a way the current demo isn't. I'd also like to add a tutorial, and a simple default game.

My current idea for the game: The theme is that we're at a convention or conference or something. Think an anime con, but perhaps without some of the weirdness and Man-Faye and the like.

The demo game is then the talk Eileen gives about Ren'Py at the conference. She can give a tutorial and demonstrate the various features, based on questions asked by the user.

The simple game is then an encounter between the POV character and Eileen in the hallway of the con, before her talk. The POV character and her can talk for a while, and perhaps hit it off a little, based on what the user says.

The key to the simple game is simple, however.

What do people think of this scenario? If people like it, I'm going to ask for people to volunteer to write most of it, and come up with art. I'd like others to do most of the writing, while I focus on the demonstration part. And I'd like people to review what I do, so we're sure everyone can understand it.

----

Also, is anything happening to the design of the home page? I'm thinking now there are several things I'd like to have fit on there.

- A logo of Eileen, probably reasonably big and off to one side.
- Navigation through the rest of the site.
- Room for 2 screenshots of Ren'Py games, so people can show it in action.
- The "elevator statement" - 1-2 paragraphs telling people who don't know what Ren'Py is, and why they might be interested in it.
- Perhaps some Ren'Py code, and a screenshot generated from that code... to show people how easy programming in Ren'Py is.

As long as this stuff is there, I'm now less concerned about the design looking like Ren'Py... It's more important that the site look professional.

-----

BTW, a big shout out goes to Shaja, who's been working on adding the Refman to the new Ren'Py wiki.

http://www.bishoujo.us/wiki/

It's really good work he's doing, and he's been really patient to put up with my idiosyncrasies while doing it.
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