Ren'Py 5.6 Plans

[PyTom]

I thought I would post a bit on my current thoughts about the Ren'Py 5.6 series. I'll also post suggestions on how people could help out, if they were inclined... I'm liking the way Ren'Py is turning into a community project, and hoping this trend continues.

Ren'Py 5.6.0

The next release of Ren'Py will be 5.6.0. This is the release that I was previously calling 5.5.5. I've decided that the changes I've been making in this version are significant enough that it deserves to be the start of the 5.6 series.

A big change in 5.6.0 will be a reorganization of the style system. I'm deprecating the selected styles, in favor of a new selected property prefix. (style.selected_button_text.color becomes style.button_text.selected_color.)

I'm strongly considering renaming the in-game menus from "menu" to "choice", reserving the name "menu" for the main and game menus. This would entail renaming the keyword, styles, functions, etc... of course, I would leave in compatibility for the old names. I'd be interested in hearing what people think of this. (I may defer this to 5.6.1.)

A cool new feature in 5.6.0 will be the shift+R reloading. Hitting shift+R saves your game, does a full restart of Ren'Py, and then reloads the game. Ren'Py is now much better at dealing with changed scripts, so you'll probably wind up close to where you changed the script. (At the last unchanged statement you saw.)

There are also a number of other features I plan to implement in 5.6.0.

5.6.0 will feature the existing demo game, with new character art. (Thanks, Piroshki!) I've made a new main menu picture, which is attached... but otherwise, the game will be largely unchanged.

I'm figuring a week or so until I release 5.6.0. I'm hoping, at that time, to go live with the new website theme. The website content will be the same, but it'll look a lot nicer.

Interlude

I'm part of a game-making team, and the game is somewhat time-sensitive. So after 5.6, I'll probably spend some time integrating that game.

Ren'Py 5.6.1

There are two things I'd like to focus on in 5.6.1.

There are a few language enhancements that I may not be able to get done in 5.6.0 (such as enhancements to scene, show and hide), so these might wait until 5.6.1.

The big change, however, will be the reorganization of the Ren'Py distribution, and the creation of a launcher program. This program will provide a convenient interface for working with Ren'Py games. This includes.

- Launching games.
- Editing game scripts.
- Running the various Ren'Py tools.
- Packaging the completed game.

A version of SciTE will be packaged with Ren'Py 5.6.1.

I'd like, as of this version, to begin including with Ren'Py a "simple" game. The "simple" game would be a short-yet-complete Ren'Py game, letting people hit the ground running.

At this point, we'd begin refactoring the existing demo game into the new "demonstration/tutorial" game.

Ren'Py 5.6.2

What I'd like to do in 5.6.2 is to add a tutorial to the demo game. Ideally, the tutorial would walk people through creating the "simple" game. The tutorial should be at a very basic level, including things like how to open a .rpy file in SciTE... and leaving out many of the more complex features of Ren'Py. The purpose of the tutorial is to show people how easy it is to make games with Ren'Py, not to wow them with power.

How you can Help

If I had to do this all myself, it would take a long time. What's worse, it would turn out lousy, as I can't write, can't draw, and think that everyone knows what a tuple is.

I have a basic idea of what the plot of the simple game should be: The idea is that the pov character is at some sort of convention. Eileen comes up to him and asks if he knows where the tutorial room is. The pov character does, and he gets the choice of doing the polite thing by walking her to the room, or just telling her where the room is. If he walks her there, they hit it off (somehow), and then she says she'll see
you after the panel. If not, she goes away.

The tutorial/demo game is the panel Eileen gives at the con.

There's a lot of room for people to help out. We need:

- A background artist who can do indoor shots. We need someone who can draw a few pictures of the con hallways and the conference room, so the characters have a place to exist... let's get rid of my photographs.

- A musician. I'd like to spend about a meg or so on original music. I think it's worth it.

- Writers. We need writers to write the various aspects of the script. I came up with a story idea... but I have no idea if it's any good... and even if it is, I'd rather someone who isn't me write it. Also, the tutorial should be written by someone else, just so my natural biases don't shine through.

- Etcetera... There's alot to be done. The website content needs to be updated, so that it doesn't suck. It would be nice to create new themes for Ren'Py. And so on... if you see a problem, and you can tackle it, do! (Just let me know for coordination purposes.)

[DaFool]

Those are nice plans. Once again, PyTom, you are so great

I'm not too enthusiastic about the command syntax changes, but then again, I haven't really yet gone beyond basic scene planning (haven't really studied customizing, etc.). So in the end I'm not too concerned about them.

Also, please test to make sure the mousewheel graphic rollback capability is preserved. That is one feature I prefer over ONSCRIPTER. Like the last few onscripter games, when I liked the intermediate pose a character struck, rolling the mousewheel only retrieved the old dialogue, not the old pose. As for rollback to before a menu choice, I prefer the current system, although I don't particularly care too much.

Who are the BG artists here? I think photos are still adequate. Especially when trying to match the smooth as silk new Eileen character images. (I have a shaky hand, can't help it)

[PyTom]

I'm not too enthusiastic about the command syntax changes, but then again, I haven't really yet gone beyond basic scene planning (haven't really studied customizing, etc.). So in the end I'm not too concerned about them.

Is there anything in particular you don't like? While I've made the style changes, I could probably be talked out of the menu -> choice thing. The only reason for changing the name is to differentiate an in-game choice from the main and game menus... should I do that?

Also, please test to make sure the mousewheel graphic rollback capability is preserved.

I have no plans to change this.

[DaFool]

I don't actually have code yet that specifies styles and menus. It'll be the first time for me to actually look at them. That's what I meant by not caring. I was just wondering it might raise some concerns to those who are used to the old syntax.

[yummy]

I agree, Ren'Py becomes more and more famous when it comes to Ren'Ai game making.

I wondered if special transitions techniques learnt on the ground were to be part of the demo.

I also wondered if there was a plan for a style GUI, I mean a script editor tool that would help creating the main parts of the game (character font styles, main menu, preferences, root menu...) for people like me who are lost when it comes to style edition.

Good job PyTom!

[Jake]

I'm strongly considering renaming the in-game menus from "menu" to "choice", reserving the name "menu" for the main and game menus. This would entail renaming the keyword, styles, functions, etc... of course, I would leave in compatibility for the old names. I'd be interested in hearing what people think of this. (I may defer this to 5.6.1.)

I like this, myself - I know I spent a little too long when I was playing around with themes a little while ago changing the wrong set of styles and wondering why I wasn't getting anywhere...

(I think that 'choice' is a more intuitive name for scripting purposes, for that matter.)

A cool new feature in 5.6.0 will be the shift+R reloading. Hitting shift+R saves your game, does a full restart of Ren'Py, and then reloads the game.

And this just sounds awesome.

The one thing that's frustrating about the warp-to-line feature as it currently stands is the lack of user-state maintenance (for obvious reasons), so if this solves that it sounds amazingly useful...

I have a basic idea of what the plot of the simple game should be: The idea is that the pov character is at some sort of convention. Eileen comes up to him and asks if he knows where the tutorial room is. The pov character does, and he gets the choice of doing the polite thing by walking her to the room, or just telling her where the room is. If he walks her there, they hit it off (somehow), and then she says she'll see
you after the panel. If not, she goes away.

I can see how this could be attractive, from a tie-everything-together point of view, but I still don't really like the idea too much. There are two reasons, really.
Firstly, I just feel a demo that feels like a demo of a full on 'professional level' VN would be more attractive in terms of the whole public-image thing talked about previously - it doesn't have to be technically complex, it's better if it's not, but something can be impressive and not complex at the same time, and I strongly suspect that a tiny-scope demo carries the connotation, deserved or otherwise, that Ren'Py is only good for tiny-scope games. I think implying a large scope even without actually portraying it would still be more 'grabby'.
Secondly, and more practically, even at the wind-down of the last convention I was at there weren't any corridors devoid of people lounging around, sometimes in cosplay, or meandering from room to room... so to my eye, to do a good set of convention BG pictures one would need to include people... and getting them to then gel with the Eileen character would really need them to be done by the same artist, drastically limiting the options and workload-spreading...

[monele]

Keyword changes : as long as a regexp can update all the scripts, it should be alright ^^;... Otherwise, it might be a pain. In any case, a bullet point list of each change (from > to) seems mandatory to ease the transition.
As for "menu" to "choice", it sounds good to me as there is a possible confusion.

Shift+R reloading : ... uh... not sure what it's useful for ^^;...

Maker tools : great, obviously ^^

[Jake]

Shift+R reloading : ... uh... not sure what it's useful for ^^;...

I'm thinking:

* Step through game, testing a path that's dependent on user state (e.g. variables set earlier in the game)
* Find a problem
* Fix problem in editor, with Ren'Py still open
* Roll back to just before problem
* Shift-R
* Ren'Py keeps your state, restarts (recompiling your script with your fixes in) and reloads just before the point of the problem.
* Test fix

[Watercolorheart]

Once I figure out Shift + R reloading, I am sure it will be a lifesaver. I am SO sick of pressing "CTRL" all the way to the middle or end of my longish chapters just to see if I remembered to "hide" all the sprites correctly.

But I'm a little intimidated by changing "menu" to "choice" even though it logically makes sense ...

[PyTom]

yummy >>> I'm not sure what you mean by "learnt on the ground". I don't currently have plans for a style editor, but that may be something to look into in the future.

Jake >>> Over the next few months, we should be getting some professional-quality games. I'd rather let them convince people to try Ren'Py. I don't want to overwhelm them when they start editing the simple game. (It's the _demo_ that should demonstrate nifty effects.)

monele >>> Actually, I'd expect to support both syntaxes for the forseeable future, but simply to document the "choice" syntax.

Jake >>> Right on the money about how Shift + R will work. It won't be perfect (as it will load in saved state + saved layers, rather then somehow recomputing them), but hopefully it will be more useful then the current warp system.

BCS >>> shift+R won't be perfect in the situation you describe, as you'll need to roll back past the hide statements to ensure they run again. Caveat emptor.

[monele]

Shift-R : Aaalright ! Useful indeed ^^. Right now I'm mostly using developer mode and speeding through the game with Shift + >. Nice, but not as precise ^^

[Alessio]

Renaming in-game menus to "choice": Very good idea, easier to understand.
Shift+R reloading: Brilliant!
PyTom part of a game-making team: Hear, hear! We will wait impatiently! :)
Launcher program: Sounds impressive, I'm very curious to see that.

Tom, if you have half an idea what kind of music you'd like to have for the demo, and think that my style would fit, I'd be happy to help out.

[yummy]

By "learnt on the ground" I only meant, when you started playing with Ren'Py in order to create nifty effects, such as lights (overexposure flash, linear shade...), sound (transitions, sfx, music...), image manipulation (move)...

Well, all the kind of nice "basic" effects you can use in a story.
Call it effect research if you want (or special tricks or whatever), that experimented users are willing to share.

[PyTom]

Tom, if you have half an idea what kind of music you'd like to have for the demo, and think that my style would fit, I'd be happy to help out.

That's the thing... I don't know precisely what it is I want. (Other then the fact that the current music is driving me insane, after listening to it for two years.)

I think I want something pleasant, that doesn't overly dominate the game, but just sort of fades into the background, setting a happy mood. Since unlike G!MB, we won't be changing it up, it should have a loop length that is reasonably long.

(All thing being equal, I like having some bells hidden in the background somewhere. But that's just me, and I'm not sure if it's the best thing for the music.)

Vague enough for you?

[RedSlash]

So it seems that from v5.6 will break backwards compatibility.. I guess its a good thing since I do think that menu -> choice is a good idea.