Lemma Soft Forums

It looks like it can skip everything.
for example, I want to make a character move around like this: you know, if I CLICK, or press the Enter key, it will immediately appear at the(400,100).

I tried the even if I added the but it doesn't work, of course...

PS: CLICK also can skip the transition effect, I think this is awful...

I want to know how to solve these problems.

he makes a good point. I'd also like to be able to disallow skipping the transitions.

Disallowing the skip option, especially on transition, is not a good choice imo. I know it is kind of frustrating for the creator, but a dedicated player/reading would only start skipping after the 1st view, for exemple, in order to jump to the next menu choice if there is be any.

Currently I play Walkure no Otome, which is a nice magic card-like game doujin, and I find really frustating to not be able to skip dialogue, battle transition and transition effect during play when I lose a fight.

Also as a creator, the ability to skip is somewhat useful when you can't use the jump function with Scite (renply.music.play() function for exemple is not called if you jump after it)

Also, If you use too many non-skippable parts, a player who has already played the VN one time will get very frustrated when trying to reach a specific spot quickly. See Hirameki's VN DVDs, where you have to let the DVD run for 15-30 minutes to reach a choice menu. Not very motivating to replay it.

(I'm sure there was a way to block the skipping described somewhere on the forum - just can't find it.)

I don't have much to add to this except that you really should let the skip feature as it is ^^;... Remember people, you're not making a movie... you're making a game, something interactive. It is *very* frustrating to be forced to see something by a game. Even when it's oh so beautiful... it won't be the 10 next times if I can't skip it whenever I feel like it.

Examples that might make you realize how it is : what do you think about trailers and copyright warnings at the beginning of movies (DVD or VHS)?... Do you watch them ?... Every time ?...

What do you think of video games that have, sometimes, 4 logos at the beginning ? All being videos of at least 10 seconds ?... Fortunately, those are usually skippable... but sometimes not @_@...

What about that really great video in this RPG ?... yea it's cool... but it lasts 10 minutes... and I've seen it 3 times already and am just trying to reach the special ending... What am I to do ? I just can't skip it !!

What about this really dramatic dialogue scene in this RPG/VN ? The first time, I realized I couldn't click through it and thought "oh ok, let's watch this then...". It was nice, well paced, and it *was* dramatic. Cool....
But the second time, I yelled when I realized I'd have to see it all again, at the same pace, when I already know what happens and it just doesn't have any impact anymore. Actually, now it gets on my nerves and if I keep replaying, this might become the scene I hate the most... just because I can't skip it.

Just imagine a book.... a simple book you're reading... what if you couldn't turn the pages yourself ? No, you have to wait for the book to turn the pages itself... You can't read fast enough ? Too bad... You've already read this and have to wait 20 seconds ? Too bad... It's the second time you read this book and are not fond of this part ? Well too bad!! You still get to wait until it's done. No turning the page for you !


I hope this makes you think again about blocking the skip feature :/

It can be useful to have skipping blocked on a first play-through. While it's frustrating for a player to be forced to sit through a long animation that they've already seen, it's equally frustrating for a player to miss an animation they haven't seen before because they clicked by accident.

Haeleth wrote:It can be useful to have skipping blocked on a first play-through. While it's frustrating for a player to be forced to sit through a long animation that they've already seen, it's equally frustrating for a player to miss an animation they haven't seen before because they clicked by accident.

This is mitigated in Ren'Py by the ability to go back and see the animation again.

Rollback. Of course we should make sure the player knows about it but it's really a godsend when you miss something. I find myself *trying* to use it in other games and I cry when I realize it's not there (or only shows some backlog but not graphics)

EDIT : Hey, I have an idea : Ren'Py already stores what's been seen and not seen for the skip feature... why not have a new option :

> Can't click through unseen parts
> Can click through unseen parts

With "can't click" by default.

This means Ren'Py will prevent the clicking during a first play, automatically. Then, for anything you've already seen, you can click and quickly go through it.
The Ctrl-skip feature stays the same.

(the only technical problem I see [sorry PyTom ^^;...] is that text should still be skippable with a click, but only *animations* prior to an unseen text shouldn't be clickable-through)

I prefer using Ctrl not by clicking to skip...especially the animation....
and if necessary, I think I can add a skip button...

monele wrote: > Can't click through unseen parts
> Can click through unseen parts

On one hand, I like the idea of at least having the option - however much it's discouraged - of being able to disable the click-to-skip. I'm thinking of the more-cinematic approach I took with the PXI exercise; if the user clicks through the transitions on such piece, they miss pretty much everything - a far cry from just shortening the odd fade in the average VN.

On the other hand, I'm thinking of how I was put off even looking at the definitions in BCS's Controlled Chaos demos after one or two from the annoyance of clicking through the intro "... ...".

[EDIT: Somewhere, in my fiddling around with the words, I managed to lose the actual point of the post. If such an option as Monele describes were implemented, it still wouldn't necessarily totally dispell the irritation that click-block could cause; a game which uses the same time-consuming or irritating transition over and over again in the script will still annoy. The user hasn't seen this particular instance of the fifteen-second series of transitions and animations that accompany the protagonist opening his front door, but they've seen the front door opening so many times before they just want to get it over with and see who's there already.]

Still, I'm in favour of having more options available to game creators. But then, I'm always in favour of having more options available to game creators!
If someone over-uses such a block, then it's just their game that's bad, not the block itself. It's equally possible to over-use dialogue or animated particles or zooms or hpunches or whatever - there still might be a few good uses of click-block that haven't been considered yet.

Well, that's the wonderful thing, you don't have to skip anything, it's entirely up to the player ... but it's good to have the option there.

I too miss Ren'Py rollback, especially with ONscripter!

When I miss an animation or facial expression, I end up having to reload a saved game just to see it again ... and trying to scroll the mousewheel, only to find that it shows me the text. Grr...

I find myself annoyed by too many transitions, and I am glad that Ren'Py gives an option to disable them. Here is my reasoning:

It's only a *transition* to the next scene. It is the scene that should hold my attention, not the pretty effects ... those can be a bonus, but often as not can be extremely annoying when overdone.

A good example of extra effects in the scenes done right was O3 (Ori, Onoe, Ochi, whatever) by Mikey. I felt like the particles added to the experience, not take away.

But if someone (for example) used all of monele's transitions in that one imagedissolve zip just to show them off .... I bet I would get sick of them pretty quick ...

Since it's offtopic, I just thought I would mention at the end here that PyTom changed my definition code to a different effect. It also skips the loading bar if you click once.

I went about-face on this issue.

CLICK is good. Rather than worry that my game be subjected to click-maniacs, I test as a click-maniac myself and make sure the game is click-maniac proof.

Meaning, the game feels very light and doesn't get bogged down by transitions. If the click-maniac misses an animation, tough luck. This means that the animations must be strategically placed on especially long paragraphs.

So everyone is against the idea of disallowing clicking through transitions. Still, there would theoretically be some special scenes that would look unnatural if the transitions were skipped. Going back just to view the animations in these scenes would, as someone has said in another topic, "cheapen the experience."

besides, whether or not it's a bad choice or whatever, it should be the creator's choice for the particular game to allow skipping the transitions or otherwise.

also, not all vn's are designed to have any sort of replay value or gameplay, or are even audience-oriented. Not all creators work with the same philosophy.

but yes, this is just something that I'd like to see in ren'py and it's not particularly important. We work with what we have. PyTom already provides a wonderful tool, and as someone who benefits from its use for free, I have no right to demand anything.

Rollback is good, but it is only mitigation, and there are still cases where it would be a frustrating option -- for example, in the case of a 30 second animation where the player only accidentally skipped the last 5 seconds, the rollback approach still presumably means the player will be forced to sit through the first 25 seconds again. (He may then be very frustrated to discover that he'd only missed 5 seconds of the animation anyway.)

Blocking accidental skipping need not take control away from the player. For example, requiring two clicks instead of one to skip animations that have not been viewed before, or restricting the effectiveness of regular clicks but allowing anything to be skipped by pressing Escape.

Haeleth wrote:restricting the effectiveness of regular clicks but allowing anything to be skipped by pressing Escape.

This idea I particularly like the sound of.