Shouldn't Ren'Py games get out of the Romantic Genre?

[Recca Phoenix]

My first and current project is a dating sim type game, but I really want to do a mystery (or murder mystery) for my next project. It would be a little weird to have a renai murder mystery, so it will probably just be a straight adventure game. I just feel so silly sometimes working on my current project (especially writing those dreaded cheesy love scenes) so I encourage people to do whatever genre they want to.

[Zarcon]

Well, lets look at this in a broader spectrum shall we?
Remember back when RPGs were pretty much clones of Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy?
Remember when Adventure games meant simply going from place to place and solving the occasional puzzle?
Notice how many games are incorporating many aspects of different genres to game these days? Such as Zelda? (RPG/Adventure)

Phoenix Wright for the GBA/DS is a good example. Essentially it's a game using a similar engine to Ren'Py. It just doesn't have the romantic undertones...or would that be overtones?...and has elements from mystery and adventure games.

That's pretty much my answer.
Even though the engine may be intended for a certain genre, it can, and will, be used or combined with other genres.

[Lime]

I'm going to use Ren 'Py to create a game that would fit into the "horror/mystery" genre once I get finished with another project I'm working on.

[eezergoode]

Hmm.. current project right now contains Elements of horror, fantasy, thriller, romance, and general social.

Think I got them all...

No H-scenes or fluorescent panties... Although the panties might be added at a later date

[Fawkes - Feathered Melody]

Crows Project and Noctua are both drama. I'm not very good at writing romance stories.

[kuroi]

Cherry bomb, despite being an adult game, is more of a horror/mystery game than a romance. I, however, don't feel that romance is a bad way to go for Renpy games in general. Rather than focusing on changes in genres for games, I feel that the Renpy community should focus more on creating really top quality games which can get the attention of a more mainstream audience. Virtual Novels are awesome. It's time we show that to mainstream society.

[Tayruh]

I don't see why visual novels can't be as free a medium as any paperback novel, comic book, tv show, movie, cartoon.. etc. I mean, they're just stories with text, graphics, sounds, and a varying amount of user interaction added, right? Where in that formula does it say that you must also have your main character be in highschool and fall in love with another highschooler?

I think the reason that most VNs tend to take the ren'ai approach is because they are simply copying some of their favorite VNs, much like everyone that makes a fan-made RPG also tries to imitate a Final Fantasy game (usually FF6, it seems) at first. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and all that.

[Daggio]

Right now I'm using ren'py for developing a romance game, just for starter. But in the future I'm thinking of developing something like princess maker. For me, the concept of raising someone (girl, to be exact) sounds very interesting.

The point with VNs is that we can develop any games that our scriptwriter (it could be ourselves) can think of. Varying from fantasy/sci-fi to today's everyday romance you see on TV.

[Hime]

But in the future I'm thinking of developing something like princess maker. For me, the concept of raising someone (girl, to be exact) sounds very interesting.

I've been thinking about that too! Though it's a bit of a challenge for such a story-focused writer like me to plan a game that concentrates on gameplay. But I've always thought that it would be nice to draw the girl so many times in so many different situations, ages and dresses... *w*

As for the topic itself, Project Nattsu was clearly a romance game, but I actually thought that there should be more OELVN romance games that would be so classic ren'ai that it's almost generic, so that's one of the reasons I chose that genre. I think most of the Ren'Py-created romance games are kind of not-so-typical bishoujo, for example, Tales of Lemma that has no choices with the girls, Kykuit that tells the story of just one day and has black-white graphics, Ori-Ochi-Onoe that has a serious story and mature characters. None of the previously mentioned features are faults, actually I think that all of those were positive sides in their own ways, but they made the games non-typical bishoujo. So I wished to create something that could be, at least in some sense, a bishoujo game that would typical in a way: Both suitable for introducing the genre to new players and me to making this kind of games. Being classical or typical isn't always a bad thing. I consider the typical bishoujo games relaxing, good entertainment, and that's what I wanted to create, even if that would result in being unoriginal and not too special. ^^

And finally, Tera to Mura to Wasuremono... It's going to be a mystery game with strong romance aspects in certain paths. I can hear the bishoujo-game lovers boo at the "in certain paths"-addition. However, it's going to be the totally opposite to Nattsu: If it's going to be called a bishoujo game, it will be far away from typical! Actually, TeraMura is contrary to Nattsu in quite many things such as the seriousness of the story and the age. But that's already off-topic... Perhaps I should finish here.

[usul]

I haven't seen a category which fits the project I'm working on (which is probably a good sign). It will incorporate a good mix of mystery, sci-fi, historical and occult themes without excluding romance and a healthy dose of humor.

After going through much of the games listed on the Ren'Py website, I'm curious to see the different genres expand and mutate. Although Ren'py does have similarities with TV, Movies & Comics, the creative authors will explore and exploit Ren'Py's unique features to produce something which is distinct from those mediums.

I think the strong point of a Ren'Py game is its ability to involve the "reader" more than a comic or regular book might, yet provide a more of a story than video games. This makes it easy to create suspense, tension, wonder, curiosity, romance and horror. Its intricacies still remain a mystery to me, although I am steadily discovering more as I learn each of its features.

[Daggio]

@hime:glad to know you have the same idea

And true, sister-maker-like games will have more gameplay than the rest of typical ren'ai games...with social status and all that.
I think a game like this could be made with ren'py, magical boutique have proved it.

[chronoluminaire]

I don't see why visual novels can't be as free a medium as any paperback novel, comic book, tv show, movie, cartoon.. etc. I mean, they're just stories with text, graphics, sounds, and a varying amount of user interaction added, right? Where in that formula does it say that you must also have your main character be in highschool and fall in love with another highschooler?

I think the reason that most VNs tend to take the ren'ai approach is because they are simply copying some of their favorite VNs, much like everyone that makes a fan-made RPG also tries to imitate a Final Fantasy game (usually FF6, it seems) at first. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and all that.

For what it's worth, back when I started planning my first ren'ai game (Beautiful Days, which never remotely approached completion), I was planning it because I thought "I want to see games that do X, Y, and Z. I've seen X done once or twice, and it was really good, and most games suffer from missing it out. And Y seems like a natural thing to do, and I can't see why anyone wouldn't do it, but none of the games I've played have done it."

But since X, Y and Z weren't specific to any one setting, I set it as a (variation of a) highschool romance, since that's a setting I personally like, and that lends itself to the kinds of groups of friends that X, Y and Z wanted. I agree with Hime, that fitting into the typical aspects of a genre doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Elven Relations is amongst the more stereotypical romance games on the RAA. And yet it's quite innovative too, for things like the RPG combats both influencing and being influenced by the girls' feelings (which is another thing like X, Y and Z that I always wanted to see). But some aspects of it were stereotypical, because I wasn't trying to break away from the stereotypes in that game, in that case.

On the other hand, When I Rule The World was a very non-stereotypical VN, and it didn't really need the slight romantic elements it had. At its core it's a non-ren'ai game, but partly because I was writing it for NaNoRenO, I decided to try to include some romance in there.

[gekiganwing]

I like the shonen romance and seinen romance genres. I find the visual novel and love simulation game formats interesting. I'm not adverse to fanservice or porn. So I can understand why other fans might like these three things in combination.

Even so, I'm wondering how ren'ai games have survived in Japan. Perhaps it's become like mainstream American comics: a "ghetto" in which only one genre prevails (superhero in one case, romance and sex in the other), and in which there honestly isn't much innovation. Perhaps in both mediums, people who are trying to create something new and different have to self-publish or form small companies. (I say this as a person who likes indie comics, and as a shoujo fanboy who wants more than one otome game in English.)

So, that said... I'd like to see something similar to the "sound novels" which existed on the Super Famicom. They were visual novels, but they weren't love stories. If my info is correct, the first Clock Tower game was a sound novel.

[vlint]

What about historical fiction? I'd like to see that as an option, personally. That would be cool if we could check more than one genre, for cross genre stories.

I'm curious—is there currently a word for visual novels without romance/genre necessarily implied? Would we call them media books with potential interactive fiction elements, or what?

Any ideas for a good term? I say we make one and start using it (if one hasn't been made).

[vlint]

I definitely agree that Ren'Py should be used for all genres, instead of just romance. I don't think it should abandon romance altogether, though. I do think people should come up with creative third person POVs with visual novels, too. I know having a 'you' character is pretty easy to depict (seeing as the other characters are generally looking at 'you'), but it can be done in several other ways, too. Just for the record, I do enjoy the second person perspective (I just think the third needs more focus, as it would make it easier for normal novel writers to transition to writing visual novels—I'd love to see some known novelists try their hands at Ren'Py; this would help people to be willing to start buying them, as well, and increase their marketability; plus, it would bring their fans to Ren'Py as well).