Lemma Soft Forums

PyTom wrote:If you could contact the second one, that would be great. If not - the spine format is not terribly complicated.

Had a good look about.

It appears to be open source, its mentioned on a number of Python websites listed as simply No Declared Licenses he hasn't updated i tin 2 years though, and the features most useful for Renpy were added in that time (largely Renpy would benefit from the mesh side of things and not only the bone + image stuff)

http://esotericsoftware.com/forum/I-m-w ... lit=Python

Thats where I found that info, just the Spine forums.

But honestly it might be a better idea to simply hack something together from scratch since eitherway this implementation is old as hell now, most of the really useful and awesome stuff in Spine came in the last few months of last year and the start of this year. Mesh deformation for example, which is largely what people want as thats what Live2D etc are basically all about (though they present it as amazing new tech never done before, its been done since the PS2).

just posting to ask if anything was done in this area?


apparently Live2D are pushing for more indie teams to get into the technology so they've reduced the price for the PRO license for productions that earn below a certain amount per year. their forumwas also updated to cater to English speakers more. i'm there if anybody needs help with learning the program, even if they'll be using other novel programs than Ren'py...

I'm still hoping for the day a Ren'Py SDK with Live2D is possible, not just because i'm working on my vn with live2d sprites lmao but also because a lot of gorgeous novels deserve live characters!
there are just some character ticks that can't be explained with words!

I can see a lot of potential for Live2D, especially now that they seem to have partnered with FaceRig. That's tech I'd love to have if I ever try my hand at another VN.

Can Live2D export to movie files? If so, it should be possible to use it with Ren'Py's new Movie Sprites feature to do something with it. (Although I haven't looked into how that would play into Live2D's licensing scheme.)

PyTom wrote:Can Live2D export to movie files? If so, it should be possible to use it with Ren'Py's new Movie Sprites feature to do something with it. (Although I haven't looked into how that would play into Live2D's licensing scheme.)

That's definitely a step in the right direction, although there is still a bit of a limitation in that it would be hard to smoothly transition between poses like a "true" Live2D game.

PyTom wrote:Can Live2D export to movie files? If so, it should be possible to use it with Ren'Py's new Movie Sprites feature to do something with it. (Although I haven't looked into how that would play into Live2D's licensing scheme.)

Live 2d animator can export video easily enough, so yes it will work with the new movie sprites feature. Question for you though, Live2d can actually export video with transparency, so is it possible to use a transparent video as a movie sprite and forgo the need for the mask video entirely? If so, that would actually cut down filesize even further. (I ask mainly cuz I have no clue how to go about making said mask video yet...)

here is a movie file exported with the transparent background option in the animator
https://mega.nz/#!I4BUTLiA!H1ysTDlW8-B7 ... SOjJjc9bn8

it should look like this:
(I don't know why it uploads here with an ugly antialias border!)

For the record, code to convert this movie to Ren'Py format is:

ffmpeg -i eileen_transparent_movie.mov -codec:v vp9 -crf 10 output.webm
ffmpeg -i eileen_transparent_movie.mov -filter:v alphaextract -codec:v vp9 -crf 10 output_mask.webm

Together, the two output files are 126,004 bytes in size, which is smaller than the 19,774,878 byte quicktime.

Nice, that's an interesting system. It could also be possible to use 3D models with this (I mean pre-rendered, like Daz3D and so on).
For Live2D and other bone animation systems (like Spriter for example) would be probably better to display the character in real-time, to save disk space and to make them working on the mobile devices too.

jack_norton wrote:Nice, that's an interesting system. It could also be possible to use 3D models with this (I mean pre-rendered, like Daz3D and so on).
For Live2D and other bone animation systems (like Spriter for example) would be probably better to display the character in real-time, to save disk space and to make them working on the mobile devices too.

Not to mention it'd allow to change characters outfits/hair/other features easily since each part would be just an image. That's one of the things that I really like with the current system that I have working and would be great to have on RenPy side.

I am highly interested in Live2D + Ren'Py, as I want one of my projects to have moving characters.

Is there any way to have truly moving characters in ren'py? For example, like hyperdimension neptunia characters are always blinking and breathing, without repetition, is this possible to do in ren'py in this moment, or at all? If yes, with what software? And in what do I have to design the model?

Georgel wrote:I am highly interested in Live2D + Ren'Py, as I want one of my projects to have moving characters.

Is there any way to have truly moving characters in ren'py? For example, like hyperdimension neptunia characters are always blinking and breathing, without repetition, is this possible to do in ren'py in this moment, or at all? If yes, with what software? And in what do I have to design the model?

Literally all animations of characters in anything are with repetition, so your asking for an impossibility. Most character idles dont last more than like 10 seconds before they repeat. Perhaps they throw in an alt idle to mix it up, but thats it. You can technically make any length animation for idle animation you wish, but you'll be limited by file space and ram. You can't just make a 20 minute long idle animation with no repetition and expect to have any reasonable results. You can make a normal idle animation like most video games, 5-10 seconds and loop that effectively, but its impossible to seamlessly transitions between animations. The best you can do is dissolves into the next animation which looks pretty good but obviously will not be as good as the real deal.

As for the animation- you just make a 5-10 second idle that has your character breath in and out, and make a blink animation. Place the blink so its 4-6 seconds into the animation total. Then import it into repny using- whatever method you choose- image sequence, video, video sprite, and poof your good. Do the same thing for additional movements you want, using dissolves to transition them. Always have the base neutral position be the start of the animation, so its as clean as possible in transition. Any huge movements will obviously not work with this technique, so only idles/face expressions work well. The only way to get around this would be if all your animations were deliberate length so you could using timings to ensure your animation is in a neutralish position before transitioning.

astrokeofmadness wrote:The only way to get around this would be if all your animations were deliberate length so you could using timings to ensure your animation is in a neutralish position before transitioning.

This... you can cook up a system without any (exact) repeats (noticeable to a human anyway). It would almost certainly have to be a UDD, possible without or with very little ATL cause that wouldn't be flexible enough and UDD will plainly be faster + smoother + 101% manageable (with loads more code and effort as a trade-off). Just imagine if you have 4 blinking patterns where you can creatively randomize order, intervals between them and even slight adjustment to the duration of each of the blinks. It's a lot of work but you'll have the desired result with a very manageable amount of images/movies and (possibly) reusable code.

Georgel wrote:I am highly interested in Live2D + Ren'Py, as I want one of my projects to have moving characters.

Is there any way to have truly moving characters in ren'py? For example, like hyperdimension neptunia characters are always blinking and breathing, without repetition, is this possible to do in ren'py in this moment, or at all? If yes, with what software? And in what do I have to design the model?

So yes, the software would have to be one of your choice and code will not be easy to write but I think it should be doable (with a lot of effort).

Has there been any news on this- especially since TyranoBuilder officially supports Live2D now? I think this kind of functionality for Ren'Py would be wonderful.

I would use TyranoBuilder instead of asking for Ren'Py support, but I much prefer Ren'Py's usability to that of TyranoBuilder.

Has anyone ever checked out what Live2D is working on now? Live 2D Euclid!!

It let's you have a 2D model act like a 3D model without the need to make 3D models and I think that could be beneficial.

I mean with Renpy you can have the character during speech be able to turn all the way around if you wanted and event scenes would be more lively.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg40RzBIqTY

(Which is also good for people who wanna make Unity3D games but have no skill in 3D modeling but they can draw well enough)

However if Renpy can't do this then there is always this new Visual Novel Making engine coming out this fall called (VN Maker: Visual Novel Maker)

http://store.steampowered.com/app/495480/

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrKzFURQ3J0

I believe it works like TyranoBuilder but better and it has Live2D support.