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I'm pleased to announce that Ren'Py is now part of Debian GNU/Linux. This means that Debian (unstable, for now) users can now install a pre-packaged version of Ren'Py using apt-get.

You can see Ren'Py's entry in the list of Debian packages at:

http://packages.debian.org/renpy

A blog post by the packager is at:

http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=50

I should note that she's interested in packaging games for Debian if they are Free Software (as defined here). She also mentions that she's interested in using Ren'Py for educational purposes, but needs art.

Interesting ô_o... I didn't know one could create packages for this type of application (but I don't really know much about packages XD).

Btw, it seems Miriam is looking for newbie-ready character graphics... maybe she should hang around here for her project needs?

*cough* blade engine *hides*

I should note that she also cares about the license of the pictures, which must be a free software license that lets them be changed and redistributed. I don't believe that any of the characters distributed by Blade are under such a liberal license.

Oh, and there's no need to cough when mentioning Blade Engine. It's a legitimate topic of discussion on this board.

Just to take a step back, could someone (very briefly) explain what debian is? Is it a sort of Linux? What does it mean that ren'py is a part of it? Is ren'py going to be in an installation disk of an operating system?

As you can see, I have no clue what debian is

Debian is a distribution (flavor) of Linux.

Like Suse and Redhat.

Packagers for each distribution are specific... otherwise you'd need to compile stuff.

Ren'Py should work on all Linux... but this distro just makes it easier. For example, I have Red Hat at home, so if I see an rpm package, that will make my Ren'Py installation easier.

DaFool wrote:Debian is a distribution (flavor) of Linux.

Like Suse and Redhat.

So far, understood.

DaFool wrote:Packagers for each distribution are specific... otherwise you'd need to compile stuff.

*ah, the shame*, so... what's a packager?

DaFool wrote:Ren'Py should work on all Linux... but this distro just makes it easier. For example, I have Red Hat at home, so if I see an rpm package, that will make my Ren'Py installation easier.

So this means that Ren'Py games will be easier to install and run on Debian than on the others like Suse or Redhat? Kind of like Windows has its "drivers"? Some devices are supported internally, for others you have to bring your own drivers in order for them to work.

This is embarrassing, actually. I need to find an old computer and start with Linux some day.

Ohhh, so packages are precompiled/arranged stuff eh? I think I get it ^^. And I've seen RPMs, so I get it now

mikey wrote:

DaFool wrote:Packagers for each distribution are specific... otherwise you'd need to compile stuff.

*ah, the shame*, so... what's a packager?

Packager is a tool for installing software in Linux.

mikey wrote:So this means that Ren'Py games will be easier to install and run on Debian than on the others like Suse or Redhat? Kind of like Windows has its "drivers"? Some devices are supported internally, for others you have to bring your own drivers in order for them to work.

This is embarrassing, actually. I need to find an old computer and start with Linux some day.

Installing Ren'Py games is already very easy, so I don't think it will be a big change.

mikey wrote:*ah, the shame*, so... what's a packager?

Okay, Linux 102:

The files that make up a program are grouped into packages. These packages are generally stored in a central repository, and you can use a single command to download them. So I could go to a debian box, and type "apt-get install renpy", and it would automatically download Ren'Py and all of the other packages it depends on. When done, I can do apt-get remove renpy, and it will get rid of all these packages, automatically. What's more, I can do "apt-get upgrade", and all of the packages on my system that are out of date will be upgraded to the latest version.

It's a system that works quite well... I had a Linux install last for over a decade, and the only reason why I reinstalled was because I moved from a 32 to a 64 bit version.

A packager is the person who makes a package.

So this means that Ren'Py games will be easier to install and run on Debian than on the others like Suse or Redhat? Kind of like Windows has its "drivers"? Some devices are supported internally, for others you have to bring your own drivers in order for them to work.

Sort of. This opens the door for Debian to package Ren'Py games. If a game is packaged, then someone could type "apt-get install moonlight-walks" (say), and it would automatically downloaded and placed on your system.

Hi, I'll give you an overall view of all this:

Debian is one of the most popular Linux distributions. It is developed by a community of volunteers, and I happen to be one of those volunteers. I'm founder and admin of the Debian Games Team, and also member of Debian-Edu.

I've been interested in Ren'Py since quite a long time ago, as it is quite a great engine. My first idea was to use it for educative games, of the kind of Galilei Planetarium in the games list (if it was free).

This doesn't really affect most of the games. The way they're compiled and distributed mean that they must often be played with the exact version of python that was used, unles the source code of the game is released too (the .py files). The same that happens to games distributed in binary form in any programming language.

I want to keep packaging games, and I'd like to create some of my own (mostly educative, as I said), but I'm only interested in those games that we could distribute under the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which more or less say that you give permission to use, redistribute and modify its contents.

The good point about packages is that they integrate totally into the system, you can install them or uninstall them with just a click in a menu, and you won't have any problem handling them in your system. Also, for those interested, Ubuntu is also a Debian derivative, so the packages will probably also end up being there.

At some point, I'd like to develop some characters for games so that newbies could start doing something with them. In fact, it would be nice to have a set of them ready for teachers to be able to create visual adventures without having to take care about that, but I also personally would like to create some of my own. The same way that games like quake or descent came with a set of textures that lowered the entry barrier for newbie level developers. I'll have to learn how to draw first anyway, I guess.

Any questions are welcome. Thanks to all of you for being developing this stuff

Greetings,
Miry

I assume this downloading needs an internet connection.

Anyhow, I imagine this now as Windows Add/Remove Programs.

You click Add, a list of programs appears (for instance Ren'Py, Moonlight Walks)

You select it, press the download/install button, et voila... you have the program/game installed, and ready to use/play.

So you don't need to go to renai.us, download the mw linux version, save it to your computer, unpack it and install it, because you have it somehow "officially" and conveniently available from the debian website (and therefore it shows in your Add/remove programs equivalent)

Well, this makes sense now, so even if I'm wrong, let me live the lie

EDIT: (after reading Miry's post)

You can freely use the 4 Ren'Py games from our team, although they aren't released under a specific license (Ren'Py within the games does have the license.txt included though). Well, we can always specially repackage them with a new readme if that's what is needed to fix the problem.

EDIT 2:
I see, just reading through the software guidelines. Would this mean unobfuscated images or script?

Hi Miriam!

It seems all well regarding many of our games, except this part:

permission to use, redistribute and modify its contents.

The thing about visual novel games is that being they are heavily-dependent on pre-rendered art, which is totally on another scale when compared to textures.

Many artists are pretty closed-source when it comes to art, because it defines their skills and marketability. That's why programmers can be paid with salary, but most artists are paid per piece, sometimes with each piece fetching hundreds of dollars.

I think that issue might potentially influence your choice of character graphics to use.

I mean some sites are pretty anal when it comes to their pictures, and they're just photographs! All the more when something takes hours or even days to construct... the possibility of it being free to modify would be pretty slim.

Hi,

I know that the "modify" part is hard for artists. It's OK, but of course those games could not go into Debian main, they should go into non-free. I guess unobfuscated script would be a must, at least for me, mostly for security reasons (many people using Debian won't like to execute code they could not inspect).

I know that m any artists are closed-source when it comes to art, I respect that as well as I respect all those programmers who make closed-source code. The only thing is that I'm interested in Free Software, Free Knowledge and also Free Art (whose limits are of course to be defined better), so that's my priority.

Greetings,
Miry

Miriam is trying to recompile Senior Year (I sent her the original script), and is getting the following error... any suggestions?