Python 2.5 and Ren'Py

[PyTom]

I've decided that the next version of Ren'Py will be based off of Python 2.5, rather than the 2.3 that we've been using up until now. I've figured out how to recompile python25.dll to shrink it in size by a significant amount, and I've also found a number of unused modules that I was able to get rid of.

Here's the current deltas in build sizes (between 6.4.0 and HEAD):

Windows: +53 KB
Linux: -40 KB
Mac OS X: +1632 KB

The big jump in the Mac OS size comes from us having to ship the python 2.5 interpreter as part of the game, whereas previously we used the python 2.3 interpreter installed as part of Mac OS X.

We're also now shipping msvcrt71.dll as part of our games. This is the visual C runtime that Python 2.5 depends on. It takes up 182k or so compressed, but I was able to offset all but 53k of that.

These sizes may vary as I add and remove code from Ren'Py, to take advantage of 2.5. I've identified some areas I'll be working on in the next release(s):

- Distribution size. I'd like to make it so that if you don't use DejaVuSans (a whopping 274 KB compressed), it won't be distributed. Ditto for some of the theme images in common.
- Speed. I'd like to take advantage of some of the features in 2.5 to improve speed.
- UI functionality. I have some ideas for new displayables (like a sidelayout) and improving existing displayables (including proper scrollbars and viewports that respond to the mouse wheel.)
- UI themeability. I'd like to add a second (third) theme, to roundrect and the default theme. If people want to contribute themes, now would be a good time.

How much of this will be in the next release is up in the air, although it seems extremely likely that 2.5 will be in. (Since I've already modified the build scripts to use it.)

Finally, I'd just like to pay tribute to Python 2.3 for serving us so well for 71 releases in the past 3 years.

[JQuartz]

Would the upgrade affect games that are currently in production in any negative way (such as loss of certain functions, change in format, etc)?

[PyTom]

I wouldn't expect it to require any major changes. I was able to run the demo game without changing it at all.

[JQuartz]

That's good to know. Thanks Pytom for making RenPy and continuously updating it. And of course for making the whole thing open source and free!

[monele]

More speed and more UI can only be a good thing ^_^. Yay for new Python!

[Hentai Senshi]

I've decided that the next version of Ren'Py will be based off of Python 2.5, rather than the 2.3 that we've been using up until now. I've figured out how to recompile python25.dll to shrink it in size by a significant amount, and I've also found a number of unused modules that I was able to get rid of.

Here's the current deltas in build sizes (between 6.4.0 and HEAD):

Windows: +53 KB
Linux: -40 KB
Mac OS X: +1632 KB

The big jump in the Mac OS size comes from us having to ship the python 2.5 interpreter as part of the game, whereas previously we used the python 2.3 interpreter installed as part of Mac OS X.

Cool. DLSite reported that YNY wouldn't run on their test Mac (OS X 10.3.9); I haven't been able to get a useful description of how exactly it fails, but bundling 2.5 should make renpy games a lot more robust against variations in the OS X Python interpreter.

[PyTom]

Yes, but I think the problem is with the libraries, or perhaps with the linker. The minimum Mac OS version supported by Ren'Py is 10.4, because that's the minimum version I have to test on, and because Apple makes it moderately difficult to compile for older versions. (At least, I've had trouble doing it.) I've had a friend of mine try Ren'Py out on 10.5, and it works there too.

At some point, I need to find a cheap used mac with 10.3 on it, so that I can develop there. Any leads people have would be appreciated.

[Aurora77]

Yes, but I think the problem is with the libraries, or perhaps with the linker. The minimum Mac OS version supported by Ren'Py is 10.4, because that's the minimum version I have to test on, and because Apple makes it moderately difficult to compile for older versions. (At least, I've had trouble doing it.) I've had a friend of mine try Ren'Py out on 10.5, and it works there too.

At some point, I need to find a cheap used mac with 10.3 on it, so that I can develop there. Any leads people have would be appreciated.

The Google/Usenet group Low End Mac Swap is a great place for cheap Macs. My main machine is a 10.3.9 box and you're more than welcome to throw me stuff to see if it compiles/runs. I've been doing some work on my own and I haven't gotten too far.

~@A77@~

[vlint]

Wow! I'm glad to see that this is working out after all, even though it turned out that I didn't need it for what I was working on.

I'm excited to see the results.