Comments about the tutorial

[Albie]

Dear Tom,

When I stumbled upon Ren'Py on the net, I thought it was a great idea. Actually, I am making a story-game engine myself, but it is much simpler and has less features than RenPy. My main goal is to use it as exercise in begginers' programming classes (I am a teacher).

So, I am thinking seriously about using Ren'Py to propose a small project to my students, and I have already asked them to play a little with renpy. A very good thing (for my purposes, I mean) is that you based the interface upon a real programming language.

As a contribution from my part, I would like to comment on the "tutorial" of Renpy that you made available.

I thought that, even it was very useful, it is more like a manual or reference than a tutorial (which is a term used usually to a more "hand-on" walkthrought to something). A "tutorial" of Ren'Py should be more like "make your first little game" thing than a bottom-up reference (learning first the syntax of the commands and then how to apply).

To be honest with you, I am a programmer (and IMHO a not so bad one ) and I got a little lost when reading the tutorial.

So, to summarize, I would suggest that you rename the current tutorial to "Ren'Py reference", so the reader will know more what to expect, I and also suggest to make a tutorial to guide the reader, step-by-step, to a first game with some good amount of demonstration of RenPy (like if the reader would create a game like the Demo game, but smaller).

If you need help, I could volunteer to help you on building the new "tutorial" (as soon as I can finish my first Ren'Py game )

Best regards,

Albie

[kara24601]

Dear Albie , I wanted to reply via a PM or something but since you're not a member I am forced to respond here.
Anyway , I too have / had a bit of confusion regarding the tutorial which is partly why I started the thread about "tips for newbies by a newbie" ;

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=457

Just thought you might be interested.

Like some posts in other threads have stated a few times ,
the "step by step" part of working with Ren'py is opening up the script of the demo game yourself with notepoad or some other preferred "word" program.
I am slowly but steadily working towards a good "tutorial" like approach via my thread and my own try outs with the program.
Or at least that's what I'm hoping to achieve. Heh.
Sorry if these are some things you've already looked over / read up about but I still think they're worth repeating...


Well , with you being a teacher and programmer , you probably already understand certain things alot better than me , eh?
Teaching is an art in itself.
I've sometimes taught some things to people myself but it's not a full time or "getting paid" type thing for me.
In person it is difficult for me to teach something properly , so I prefer to teach online so I can access things right then and there and at the same time be able to teach without worrying about forgetting details.
I also feel for anybody having to teach a group of people as I feel more comfortable with a one-on-one session...even online sometimes it can be hard enough to teach something....I don't even want to think about taking on a group.
Haha!
And , of course , if my "student" is already frustrated and stuff , it's going to upset my mood and I can't think properly enough to be much help so they get even more frustrated when something goes wrong and then of course they get frustated at me and I get frustated back at them...ect. Arg! heh
Best wishs.

( pytom brought up good points....*duh..self...you should've thought about that before...is it a "we're very new to computers despite whatever grade we're in" or whatever... Ah , PyTom! ...coding...fun?! *shocked face* You ok , man? *stares at PT in wonder* *giggles* I hate coding with a passion but i know it MUST be done ...can't have a game or any program without coding...sigh ...even kisekae and html and dream works in furcadia...all require coding...*cries* )

Actually , maybe right now my thread is a bit too disjointed to make a proper tutorial but hopefully it'll be improved upon eventually and soon as I work more and more. ( ack I am so into chatting about it and stuff that I am having a hard time getting back to the actual working on it / back into working on things...*sighs at self* )

[PyTom]

When I stumbled upon Ren'Py on the net, I thought it was a great idea. Actually, I am making a story-game engine myself, but it is much simpler and has less features than RenPy. My main goal is to use it as exercise in begginers' programming classes (I am a teacher).

So, I am thinking seriously about using Ren'Py to propose a small project to my students, and I have already asked them to play a little with renpy. A very good thing (for my purposes, I mean) is that you based the interface upon a real programming language.

Well, I'm honored that you're considering using Ren'Py as part of an academic curriculum. IRL, I'm a grad student, so this stuff interests me more than most. I'm somewhat curious about the details, though. First of all, what level of education is this (high-school, college, or whatever), and are these students planning on going into a CS program? I think that Ren'Py might be interesting as a tool for ensuring that people are not afraid of the computer, but I'm not sure how useful it will be for teaching people how to program. I designed the language to look like a script, and therefore be easy to write. As a programming language, I'm actually somewhat ashamed of it... for various reasons, it lacks the structured programming constructs found in real languages. You can jump into the middle of an if statement, if you so desire. (This is necessary for things like rollback and save/load).

On the other hand, I think the some of the most valuable early computer courses are ones that teach people to stop being afraid of computers, and that computers only do exactly what we (or some other programmer) tells them to. For that sort of a class, I think Ren'Py might be a good choice, as it allows people to turn out fairly impressive games quickly. (Although how to get the art may be something more interesting...)

So, to summarize, I would suggest that you rename the current tutorial to "Ren'Py reference", so the reader will know more what to expect, I and also suggest to make a tutorial to guide the reader, step-by-step, to a first game with some good amount of demonstration of RenPy (like if the reader would create a game like the Demo game, but smaller).

Even though I've snipped them, I agree with your criticisms. I've added a TODO item to remind myself to rename the tutorial to the reference in the next version of Ren'Py.

I think that a tutorial would be a good idea... but I'm not sure if I'd have time to write it. I spend my days working on non-fiction papers for publication, so I would rather spend my free time coding (fun) or making fictional games (rewarding), rather than writing non-fiction documentation (not so fun). Even updating the reference is something that's a bit of a chore in many cases, but something I do to help out people who want to make games.

If you need help, I could volunteer to help you on building the new "tutorial" (as soon as I can finish my first Ren'Py game )

Well, I probably won't have time to do a tutorial any time soon. But if you or someone else wants to step up and make it, I'll give it a place of prominance on the Ren'Py website, and help with comments, critiques, and updates as I can.

[rioka]

Using Ren'Py in class is a wonderful idea! Although it does not have all the structure of a proper programming language like PyTom said - it's as good a start as any. It's probably better for those who are iffy about programming and for females (who unfortunately generally tend to shy away from this field) to get their feet wet and get them interested in this area. =)

Even though I've snipped them, I agree with your criticisms. I've added a TODO item to remind myself to rename the tutorial to the reference in the next version of Ren'Py.

PyTom, don't forget to modify "archive.exe images *.jpg *.png" to "archiver.exe images *.jpg *.png" under Obfuscating Images. Something I came across when I was archiving my images in February.

A Ren'Py Tutorial is on my list of "To Do's" for the Development Corner page for Ren'ai Games. I'll most likely get to it after NaNoRenO is all over. I'll start with basics and move to more complicated techniques... and maybe I'll share some of the things I did/am doing for my games... ^_~

[Albie]

Well, my friends, I got ashamed of myself and registered

Now, about the previous posts:

Tom, I think it would be a great thing if we people help you out. If Kara agress, her material is very good and promising and I think it could evolve into a tutorial. Maybe it could be rewritten in a more "teaching style" form (I might be able to help soon).


Tom, I teach for undergrad course in Information Systems (I call that a light CS, with a bias for management).

My goal in using RenPy was more like you said, removing the fear of coding. I teach programming (using Java) for the second to the fourth semester in my school. I think using things like Game Maker, Robocode or RenPy as "cultural challenges" (as I call them) helps a lot for the students to be a little more adventurous when dealing with new technologies (as well as being very funny and motivating).

Anyway, like I said, I am still making my first game. I will plan and implement this project when I have a more comprehensive knowledge of RenPy

Regards,

Albie