Editra Support

[PyTom]

The editor that I'd really like to ship with Ren'Py is one called Editra. It's nearly as fast as SciTE, sharing the scintilla editing component. It's the easiest to use editor I know, and also one of the easiest to extend. It's written in Python, which opens the door to sharing components between it an Ren'Py, as part of an integration plugin.

I was very close to choosing it instead of JEdit. Why did I go with JEdit?

The Windows version of Editra is 9 compressed megs, while the mac version is 19. (I don't know how big the Linux version would be, but figure it'll probably be about 10 megs big.)

JEdit is about 1.7 megs big. And that's for all three platforms.

If I was to include Editra in Ren'Py, the resulting distribution would be about 60 megs big, rather than the current 18. That seems unacceptable to me.

An alternative would be to only include the source code to Editra (2.8 compressed megs - net change around 1 meg), and require the user to download python and wxpython on his own. I'm really beginning to think that this is the best possible solution, especially if I can make Ren'Py give a sensible error message if the dependencies are missing.

So, I'd like people to go to http://editra.org and try it out, and see what they think.

This would make the Ren'Py SDK slightly harder to install, but (IMO) nicer to use.

[delta]

An alternative would be to only include the source code to Editra (2.8 compressed megs - net change around 1 meg), and require the user to download python and wxpython on his own. I'm really beginning to think that this is the best possible solution, especially if I can make Ren'Py give a sensible error message if the dependencies are missing.

You're looking at a support NIGHTMARE, considering the userbase. My suggestion is to ship without an editor and offer standalone editra _binaries_ for each platform separately.

Also, I have no problem with a 60MB SDK that works.

[Wintermoon]

I don't think 60MB is unreasonable for a developer tool, so long as it doesn't affect the size of the actual VNs. Ren'Py VNs with only an hour or so of reading time often get bigger than that.

If file size is a major concern, you could always make separate packages for different target operating systems.

(Haven't tried Editra, or JEdit. I'm sticking to gvim.)

[killdream]

I think it would be fine if Ren'Py were 60MB+, but if you really think size it's a matter here, you can make different packages (or ship with just the source, since Python dependencies really make the distributable a lot bigger)

And the front page it's not working so I had to google it to download, actually =D

[EvilDragon]

In these times of broadband Internet, I think it's not a problem to DL a 60 MB SDK. Although you can alleviate this with:

If file size is a major concern, you could always make separate packages for different target operating systems.

No problems with 3 SDK versions: one for Win, one for Mac, one for Linux. And they would all be ~25 MB, given the numbers you said, right? That is VERY acceptable.

Also, suggestion: if we have already installed older Ren'py SDK (say, 6.9.0.) with that Editra editor, offering yet another three SDK versions (without editor, overwriting older SDK) should also reduce DL size.

[JQuartz]

Can the current version of Scite work with the future versions of Renpy? If yes then can there be a Renpy package without an editor? I still want to use Scite so I don't really want to download the extra 10mb+ Editra and just waste it.

[Jake]

You're looking at a support NIGHTMARE

The first thing I did when I read that part of the original post was check whether it had actually been posted on the 1st of April and I'd just missed it... I'd have to agree, to try and do that would be insane, and having to do so would probably put a lot of people off using Ren'Py.

I'd agree with most of the people above, really - the ideal, as far as I can see, would be three separate SDKs each with just their binaries of the editor in but capable of building for the other two platforms as well. Failing that, one distributable for Ren'Py and three separate ones for the editor for Ren'Py. And I don't see any huge problem with a 60MB SDK either, especially if incremental releases could be shipped as smaller patches.

[EvilDragon]

I'd agree with most of the people above, really - the ideal, as far as I can see, would be three separate SDKs each with just their binaries of the editor in but capable of building for the other two platforms as well. Failing that, one distributable for Ren'Py and three separate ones for the editor for Ren'Py. And I don't see any huge problem with a 60MB SDK either, especially if incremental releases could be shipped as smaller patches.

VERY good points here, Jake!

[chronoluminaire]

I have no problems with a few extra tens of megabytes in the Ren'Py distribution; extra modules for different text editors sounds fine as well. I'm all in favour of moving away from JEdit as soon as possible. I still like editing my script in Crimson Editor (and I write most of it in the Windows Mobile equivalent of Notepad).

Oh, and shipping with sources that people have to compile before using the text editor seems insane. A large portion of Ren'Py's target audience are precisely the kind of people who would never use the tool if it required that.

[jack_norton]

I checked the editor and seems nice The features sounds great, if you manage to implement code autocompletion with renpy instructions that would speed development time by a lot!
The extra 19mb shouldn't be a problem at all for a development tool IMHO.

[killdream]

Just tried it a bit, it's good to have a code outline/completion and TODO things, but a lot of things are still missing.

Though, it seems stable for a 0.4 beta version. Not too fast as SciTe but the features (and possibility to extend with Python plugins and allow Ren'Py code outline/completion) make for it =D

[DaFool]

If I was to include Editra in Ren'Py, the resulting distribution would be about 60 megs big, rather than the current 18. That seems unacceptable to me.

Ironically, it's acceptable to me now.
(Primarily because I have broadband now )

Instead of mega-efficient projects, I'm also now into mega-ridiculous projects, among them a Schooldays-like full motion video CYOA that might just use your rewritten rendering code to work better with video formats.

Best is to have one small Ren'Py distro, and instruct the user to install one of 3 binaries for the text editor.

[Jake]

Best is to have one small Ren'Py distro, and instruct the user to install one of 3 binaries for the text editor.

Depends who your audience is. If you're aiming Ren'Py at people who aren't programmers, then configuring anything is likely to put some of them off. So for that audience, it's better to put it all in one download so they can't get anything wrong and they don't have to worry about anything.

If you're aiming it at technical people, on the other hand, then you're likely to find people will prefer the option to just download Ren'Py and provide their own editor or pick one up from the site... but generally speaking, Ren'Py already attracts a lot of non-technical people, and traditionally, technical people aren't the ones with stories to tell (saying this as a technically-inclined person).

[PyTom]

Hm... Looking at the current version a bit more closely, it looks like it's missing some essential features, like being able to position the cursor on a particular line.

So I'll be holding off the integration until Editra gets a little more mature... which should happen quickly, the guy who writes it works very hard at it.

(If someone wants to help out with editor integration, I could use the help. It's one of the more maddening things I have to deal with, especially since I just use Emacs anyway.)

[delta]

It's one of the more maddening things I have to deal with, especially since I just use Emacs anyway.

Well, if you're using emacs anyway, you shouldn't be a stranger to maddening things. That said, I could help with editor integration, but only after I get my current workload off my chest. Maybe editra is worth starting on by then.