Why Why Why ?!!!

[scotty42]

Ren'Py is absolutely the best VN Engine for my use as a high school game design teacher
but I dare not use it for fear that some underage kid will be introduced to the world of hentai
and there goes my job. The builtin demo game makes a direct reference.
The sample games at the site aren't segregated very well.
Is it too much to ask to separate out the "adult" elements and make a "kid safe" version/site??

[MaiMai]

Well, the games that have mature content are clearly marked. o.o And if you're going to use the engine for your game design class, you don't have to show any games that have mature content at all. I mean, all you have to do is download the engine, download the SAFE games to use as examples and voila. I don't really see an issue here besides that small reference

[Aleema]

The name "Ren'Py" itself connects back to hentai (Ren'Ai -> Dating Sims -> Hentai Sims), not to mention there's a hentai game out there just plain called "Ren'ai (True Love)". xD

As wonderful as Ren'Py may be, it may not be for the education setting at this time. I don't think there's a way to childproof it rather easily or quickly. And it would almost be against the point of it in the first place (it craves dating sims).

Either isolate it on your own, or find an alternative, methinks ...
Don't make this career risk!

[Rafa]

Indeed don't take risks!

In fact we don't censor ourselves I believe, I follow what was posted here http://renpy.org/wiki/Censorship

So if someone curious and has a lot of time in the hand will eventually find the "EROTIC" part of it.

[PyTom]

Is it too much to ask to separate out the "adult" elements and make a "kid safe" version/site??

The answer is basically "yes", it is too much to ask. If someone is willing to go through with it, I'd be willing to help out. But Ren'Py is fairly entangled with the community it grew up in, so much so that I don't think we could easily extract it to the point where I'd be comfortable recommending it as something that should be taught to children in a classroom setting. For example, these forums have an adult section, and the forums are a link away on the Ren'Py site.

There's also the issue of what we consider to be adult. For example, the game "Real Life" contains some things that, while not adult, you probably wouldn't want in a school environment.

Really, I think the only way to do it would be to create a second website, probably with a different name, and promote that. But that's too much to ask, seeing as how I have a limited amount of time to work on Ren'Py.

Taking off my "Ren'Py Creator" hat and putting on my "Professor of Programming Languages at an Accredited University" hat, I don't think Ren'Py would be a very good thing to teach high-schoolers. Ren'Py makes it easy to create several types of games, but more difficult to create others. The Ren'Py language is highly specialized for the types of games it's good at, and is unsuitable for a more generic curriculum. For example, Ren'Py is meant for code that rarely repeats, and hence has little in the way of looping constructs. It also uses dynamic scoping, which is rare.

[LVUER]

RenPy is a tool to make VN. And lots of VN have porn (hentai or whatever you call it) in it. Eventhough not all VN for adults (lots of VN rated at all age), many (if not most) people think that VN is porn game. Even my big bro scold me while I clearly playing an all age VN (a RenPy game actually), and I'm 26 years old (that mean I already could enjoy porn legaly!)

And just like PyTom said, I also think RenPy isn't too suitable for teaching in highschool (or also university for that matter). GameMaker is more suitable for that. GameMaker is object oriented and could make wide range of game variety (RTS, TBS, RPG, Shooting, Action, etc... and even VN). Sam-kun made Sun Riders which is a VN-shooting hybrid game. It's a great game, you must try it. Fatal Heart (commercial) game is also a good example of great GameMaker game. Even the creator of GameMaker (one who also make Delphi/Pascal programming language, if I remember correctly) use GameMaker to teach in university.

If you insist to use RenPy, you could always make your own "safe" game (or just download it from Renai Archive). Since if you want to teach using RenPy, you have to be able to make a game using RenPy. Though even if you do use a safe game, your students could always browse and search for RenPy sites/forum in internet and know the true nature of VN/Renai games.

[adrix89]

What you all misunderstand is that ultimately Ren'py is a TOOL
If you focus on the creating stuff with it and chose your examples carefully(I think there is a reference in The question that you could edit the script) you should have no problem
The only problem is that it focuses on visual novels so it might be okay if you want writing art and music together but it isn't suitable if you want game making
But this is http://www.scirra.com/ (win only,kicks game maker ass)
And for 3d "level design" http://sandboxgamemaker.com/
You don't have to mention the site on where you got it,and if they can find the site at home using the name in google then they already have loads of porn on there computer(and kids are into hardcore stuff this days that even shocks me)

[blankd]

I'm no expert, but you could also create a waiver of some form, basically if the student explores OTHER material linked to RenPy that you have not provided in-class, you are not liable. A word of caution would be to use VERY VERY careful language if/when you distribute that waiver. If the parents do not sign it, then the students get to do a side project?

It's something akin to movie/animation production classes in high-school, you can pick G, PG and PG-13 movies to show in class, but it is beyond your power if the student searches and finds R movies outside of the classroom.

*Hope it helps!*

[rimir]

And if all you want is a VN engine you could take a look at novelty.It's still in beta but it's capable.

[Jake]

Taking off my "Ren'Py Creator" hat and putting on my "Professor of Programming Languages at an Accredited University" hat, I don't think Ren'Py would be a very good thing to teach high-schoolers.

... and wearing my "Oh man, CS is not the only discipline" hat, it really depends on what you're trying to teach them. If you're trying to teach them programming - then sure, Ren'Py isn't the best vehicle for it. If you're trying to teach them storytelling, on the other hand, it's a pretty good tool for it. They're not going to use all the advanced functionality, they don't need to know about most of the language or the API, they don't need to touch Python... give them a cheat-sheet with the basics of scenes and sprites and transitions and a bunch of stock graphics, and they'll be away.

When I was in primary school, for example, we got given a toolkit which was pretty similar (on the BBC, IIRC) to a basic VN engine. I thought of it more as a stripped-down/bastardised text adventure engine at the time, but most of my class managed (taking turns in groups, of course, 'cause we only had the one computer) to construct something that worked. As I recall, our teacher took the opportunity of us all being interested in playing on the computer to teach us something about constructing a plot.

And if all you want is a VN engine you could take a look at novelty.It's still in beta but it's capable.

...

If someone is worried about the things associated with Ren'Py because kids might poke around associated sites and find stuff their parents don't want them to see, and they might lose their job, Novelty is a worse proposition; if these hypothetical kids poke around on Sin's sites the teacher's more likely to get executed!

[pinkmouse]

As other posters have pointed out, it's difficult to comment without knowing what you're trying to teach the kids, but if you are trying to teach them elements of programming, then you might like to look at Inform: http://inform7.com/ which now has a section on the website specifically for using that system in a teaching environment.

Having said that though, I bet the very first thing the kids are going to do is use it for writing H. After all, what are the most commonly looked-up words in the dictionary?

[rimir]

And if all you want is a VN engine you could take a look at novelty.It's still in beta but it's capable.

...

If someone is worried about the things associated with Ren'Py because kids might poke around associated sites and find stuff their parents don't want them to see, and they might lose their job, Novelty is a worse proposition; if these hypothetical kids poke around on Sin's sites the teacher's more likely to get executed!

Uh...well...I haven't really been at the novelty forum's much and that too was long ago...so I don't really remember much about it...

If you look at it that way I don't think it's a good idea to show any VN engines at all to high-schoolers since a simple googling of the term would inevitably show up links most parents would not want their children to find out about.

So it's probably better to show them gamemaker or Inform or AGS.

[Aleema]

Having said that though, I bet the very first thing the kids are going to do is use it for writing H. After all, what are the most commonly looked-up words in the dictionary?

Haha, that's so true. Allow kids to write any story they want and watch the high school boys just make one about sex anyway. xD

[Jake]

If you look at it that way I don't think it's a good idea to show any VN engines at all to high-schoolers since a simple googling of the term would inevitably show up links most parents would not want their children to find out about.

So it's probably better to show them gamemaker or Inform or AGS.

Because nobody has ever made adult games with GameMaker or Inform or AGS! (This is an obvious lie.)

And frankly, if you wanted to avoid mentioning any words to high-schoolers which can lead to porn if they do google searches on those words, then you'd be limiting yourself to a very, very small lexicon, which would probably prevent you from properly teaching them science (particularly biology!), art, maths, sociology, literature and so on. Shying away from things because of a tangential association with 'adult' content is not generally a rational approach, I only mentioned Sin's sites because it seems to me ridiculous to move someone away from Ren'Py because of concerns over such things, and move them towards an engine written by a guy who frequently talks on his website about far more salubrious things than you see on the public LSF. A better approach IMO would be for the teacher in question to simply prepare enough information on the engine for his class that they don't need to look anything up online as part of the class; there's no way to police what kids do in their own time, after all, and anyone with an Internet connection is automatically at risk of exposure to pornography.

But then, I would also seriously consider supporting the mandatory sterilisation of anyone who tried to get a teacher sacked because a kid they'd taught had found porn on the Internet due to something tangentially related to their class. So I don't think I fit well enough into the USian-Soccer-Mom psychology to offer useful advice to an understandably-paranoid teacher.

[rimir]

Because nobody has ever made adult games with GameMaker or Inform or AGS! (This is an obvious lie.)

I agree...but the point is that while Ren'Py easily lends itself to the following route...

......(analyze name or look at site)......(google)......(what's this? google.)
Ren'Py ---------------------------->Ren'Ai = Dating Sim---------------------->True Love, Paradise Heights etc.

...The other ones aren't exclusively associated with VN's (a genre which has been high in eroge content(I may be wrong)) and would thus provide Scotty's student's less exposure to VN's.Also AGS and Game-maker have been used to create quite high-quality games (I don't know much about Inform) and thus it is quite probable that the wandering novice would in that case get interested in creating an adventure game or a tetris remake rather than search for the relatively rarer use for creating H-games.

As for making H-games with the mentioned software...I believe the earliest in the genre were made without any engines at all.

A better approach IMO would be for the teacher in question to simply prepare enough information on the engine for his class that they don't need to look anything up online as part of the class;

That is not a feasible solution since the amount of information the kids require would depend on the complexity of what they attempt to make with Ren'Py.The manuals are there yet so many of us come with questions to this board.

there's no way to police what kids do in their own time, after all, and anyone with an Internet connection is automatically at risk of exposure to pornography.

Exactly....we are only trying to ensure that the teacher doesn't get blamed for it.

I still advice that in his situation it is better to steer clear of VN's.