Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

Discuss how to use the Ren'Py engine to create visual novels and story-based games. New releases are announced in this section.
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henvu50
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Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#1 Post by henvu50 »

Currently, if you want to make a frame or window with stuff inside it; buttons, labels, scrollbars, etc, you have to manually code it which is slow & annoying.

Does Ren'py have any kind of application that lets you create a frame or window using a GUI? For example, you drag & drop a new window or frame into a new project. Then you can add new buttons, labels, scrollbars, etc on the fly, then drag it around and resize it, think photoshop or gimp. You can resize the buttons very fast, resize everything, move it across the canvas, etc. Then once you make your window or frame with all the labels, buttons, etc, then you can see it's ren'py source code and just copy it into your project.

Basically, I need a way to rapidly create frames & windows with tons of content inside it, in less than two-three minutes, instead of it taking an hour.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#2 Post by rayminator »

everything for renpy you have to manually code... it's the best way to learn....

if you want something easy to use go get

Visual Novel Maker You have to pay
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4954 ... vel_Maker/

TyranoBuilder Visual Novel Studio You have to pay
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3453 ... el_Studio/

Rpg mv\mz maker You have to pay
https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/products/rpg-maker-mv

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#3 Post by Imperf3kt »

I had plans to make something like this one day, but its a rather large undertaking, so I never really got around to trying.

There is xrenpy, which claims to allow you to do that.
https://github.com/ZeroChaotic/XRenPy

The renpy Director may help somewhat as well.
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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#4 Post by henvu50 »

I was hoping Ren'py would have this basic functionality by now.

The python language is not a problem. I can easily make the screen I want manually by typing out the code, but typing it out and then having to run ren'py every time just to visually see the results is a nightmare. It takes too long. It's not efficient at all. Sure, it's easy to do, the code is SIMPLE, it's literally child's play, but it takes ten times longer than a GUI.

We need a GUI that lets us design screens on the fly, then lets us populate it with the following on the fly, letting us drag and resize, etc:
  • Add
    Bar
    Button
    Fixed
    Frame
    Grid
    Hbox
    Imagebutton
    Input
    Key
    Label
    Mousearea
    Null
    Side
    Text
    Textbutton
    Timer
    Transform
    Vbar
    Vbox
    Viewport
    Vpgrid
    Window
Imagine this:
- I run renpy-gui-design.exe
- I drag out a screen to like 1024x600 pixels.
- Then I add buttons by dragging them over and resize them on the fly.
- I then add a couple of labels by just drag and drop, resize them on the fly.
- Then I type out some text.
- Then I copy & paste some images.
- BOOM DONE.

A few minutes, and I'm DONE. Instead I have to manually type everything, then run ren'py to visually see the results.

Uggh, this is a complete and total nightmare. This is the epitome of a debacle. It's 2021. This isn't funny anymore. WE NEED gui functionality asap to design the screens we want instantly. We design what we want and instantly see the results in real time.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#5 Post by uncoded »

Ren'Py is free software. It means that if the feature you want is so simple, you're free to contribute, add this oh-so-basic-it's-2021-y'know feature and help everyone a fraction as much as you are currently helped.
If you are serious about your need, there are less contemptous ways to express it. Find people with the same need. Write a true specification. Try to tackle the problem. See if it creates leverage. And so on.
Thanks a lot.
🐾

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#6 Post by Lochana »

Learn how to use image buttons and textbuttons. It's simple and fairly easy to manage. I decided to code my own UI from scratch using Image buttons and had a fully functioning right click menu, save/ load menu and configuration menu in less than 300 lines of code.

Why the use of image buttons is not more encouraged I'll never know.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#7 Post by adrix89 »

You can reload the script while running and you can reuse GUI code.
There is also the Interactive Director.

The problem is Renpy works with Code so you have to write Code.
Besides a WYSIWYG Editor might look easy, but its a Mess when you need to take care of the structure, details and intricacies.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#8 Post by SypherZent »

adrix89 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:32 am The problem is Renpy works with Code so you have to write Code.
It is exactly as adrix said. Ren'Py works with Code.

What you described (a GUI to design Frames/Windows) is what is termed as "visual programming".
Python is not a visual programming language. And Ren'Py is not a visual programming software.
henvu50 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:44 pm typing it out and then having to run ren'py every time just to visually see the results
^ Yes. That's how coding works. Most languages are not visual programming languages.
Imagine some other engines where it takes 20+ minutes to compile the code just to test it and see the frame is 100 pixels off.

All of this being said, your real problem isn't with Python nor Ren'Py. When I code GUI, I get it perfect on the first try.
That is because I have precise pixel locations already done in a mockup in either GIMP or a site like Figma that facilitates GUI design.
Basically, your Art Design department is failing to provide the precise GUI specifications for your coding department to perfectly execute it on the first try.
If you're doing it all yourself, then you're failing in the Art Design department. You're not creating a proper mockup where precise pixel positions of every element on the screen are predictable and known.

If you work with relative positioning it's even easier. Say I want a frame to be located 20% from the left margin of the screen and centered vertically. Just use align instead of offsets. This boils down to technical experience, and it isn't an issue with the coding language or Ren'Py as much as the technical precision of your Art Department and how it interfaces with your (GUI) Coding Department. Solve that and your pipeline will be efficient and everything will work smoothly.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#9 Post by henvu50 »

In any MODERN software development, you have a basic GUI that lets you draw out basic elements of a form, or in this case screens, windows, etc.

Image

You guys are trying to justify an archaic method of development.

Listen, we don't need it to be so feature rich. Just a simple interface that lets us drag out the most widely used objects. Then we copy & paste the code into Ren'py, done.

The issue here is SPEED. Typing it out manually takes ten times longer.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#10 Post by Imperf3kt »

henvu50 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:23 am The issue here is SPEED. Typing it out manually takes ten times longer.
I'd argue that this is only true when you aren't experienced. I can produce a screen in a few seconds and have it turn out how I expect, no GUI required. Of course, that said, I've been using Ren'Py for over five years.
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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#11 Post by henvu50 »

Imperf3kt wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:40 am
henvu50 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:23 am The issue here is SPEED. Typing it out manually takes ten times longer.
I'd argue that this is only true when you aren't experienced. I can produce a screen in a few seconds and have it turn out how I expect, no GUI required. Of course, that said, I've been using Ren'Py for over five years.
However fast you can type out a screen, mouse clicks & drags will always be faster. Visual representations are ten times faster to adjust to your exact liking VS re-running over and over again based upon guesstimated values.

The archaic way of typing it out involves TOO much guesstimation. That is a HUGE waste of time. Visual GUI has ZERO guestimation. You drag, move & resize to your exact fit in rapid mouse motions, because you're constantly seeing it visually. You don't have to re-run or anything. The GUI constantly updates the text automatically for you, to instantly give you visual updates.

So many Ren'py developers are accepting $$$ from Patreons. If Patreons were aware that Ren'py developers still don't have access to a GUI when designing forms, they'd soon realize that the projects they're funding could be finished x% faster.

Once Ren'py does finally have a basic GUI. If the Ren'py developer doesn't use it, I'd NEVEr give them $$$, NEVER. I would never fund such a slow means of software development.

EDIT: I can type out screens fast too, but in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking, my god this is so slow compared to a GUI, lol.
Last edited by henvu50 on Sun May 23, 2021 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#12 Post by mavyxdawn »

From an unbiased POV, henvu is correct about the speed, specially for new ones trying ren'py and who want to customize their UI.
On another note, I don't think it's easy to make such a feature. I'm still kinda new to being a developer (4.5 years), but just thinking about it gives me headache.

Also, patreon is for donations and support. The devs/creators are not required to make such features just because they are given a lot of money. If you really want to have that feature, I suggest creating a petition and having a donation pooled for making that feature possible. Of course, you'll need the permission of the developers and you have to realize that this will take a long time.

(I'm sorry for butting in but please don't be angry at me too. I just want to help)
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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#13 Post by henvu50 »

mavyxdawn wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:49 am Also, patreon is for donations and support. The devs/creators are not required to make such features just because they are given a lot of money. If you really want to have that feature, I suggest creating a petition and having a donation pooled for making that feature possible. Of course, you'll need the permission of the developers and you have to realize that this will take a long time.
I didn't even know we could do such a thing. This sounds like a great idea. Patreons who fund visual novels would LOVE to offer $$$ to Ren'py developers, thus improving all of their favorite games, beacuse there's a lot of Patreons in general who prefer games be made in Ren'py.

We'd just point them at the petition, set of goal of say $6000.00 ? To have one guy work on it for two months?

All the GUI would have to do is just let us drag out each object, size, arrange them as a first version, just so we get the basic screen layout done. Then from there we could do the rest in code.

Drag out screen size.
Add three buttons, move, resize and get them where you want.
Add label as a title, move it where you want.

We can fill EVERYTHING else in manually in the code.
mavyxdawn wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:49 am From an unbiased POV, henvu is correct about the speed, specially for new ones trying ren'py and who want to customize their UI.
On another note, I don't think it's easy to make such a feature. I'm still kinda new to being a developer (4.5 years), but just thinking about it gives me headache.

(I'm sorry for butting in but please don't be angry at me too. I just want to help)
Oh woops! It was not my intention to appear angry! haha :) Everyone is right to a certain degree. If you have a lot of experiencing making screens, you can technically make them faster than someone who doesn't work with them constantly.

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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#14 Post by mavyxdawn »

Oh! glad no one's angry! XD
Yeah, should be possible as long as the dev(s) agree to team up and do it~
I am also a programmer but I also have a hard time coding the UI in Ren'Py (shame on me lol). I was actually thinking of creating one myself but I think it's better to have the original devs do it :D

Hope it gets approved >.<
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Re: Does Ren'py have a GUI to design Frames/Windows easier?

#15 Post by mavyxdawn »

I don't know anything about the numbers hek hek better ask them. Oh we could start a kickstarter or something!!! (getting ahead of myself lol)
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