Help Understanding Legal Rights for Game Assets...

[Nicodemus_Reborn]

Howdy everyone!

This is a subject that I'm woefully ignorant of, and would really like to educate myself. When contracting or commissioning artists, musicians, programmers, etc. for games, I understand that having the legal rights to the intellectual property matters a great deal. But there's a lot of information on the subject, and I'll admit that I am having some difficulty understanding the nuances of it all.

What exact rights must a developer have to the assets of their game? What is necessary to assure these rights? What rights do the artists retain? Who legally owns these assets?

Sorry for the heavy topic, but it's something that I'd love to learn about and figured this might be a place to go.

Thanks!

[firecat]

What exact rights must a developer have to the assets of their game?

everything

What is necessary to assure these rights?

contract

What rights do the artists retain?

they own the art, in writing/code they own the script, in music they own the song.

Who legally owns these assets?

the one that created them.

there needs to be more information on what you asking.

[Nicodemus_Reborn]

Thanks for the response firecat. I guess what I'm asking specifically is this:

You said that the developer needs every right to every asset in their game, yet you also said that the programmers/artists/etc. own their created media.

Is there a difference between owning all the rights to the media, and owning the media itself?

[firecat]

when you own all rights that means you have every power to make it into a commercial product and so forth. however when you have people own separate stuff (mp3, writing, art) credit is need to be given, usually these kinds of things are what makes free games, other times commerical if you ask the original owners.

[SundownKid]

Howdy everyone!

This is a subject that I'm woefully ignorant of, and would really like to educate myself. When contracting or commissioning artists, musicians, programmers, etc. for games, I understand that having the legal rights to the intellectual property matters a great deal. But there's a lot of information on the subject, and I'll admit that I am having some difficulty understanding the nuances of it all.

What exact rights must a developer have to the assets of their game? What is necessary to assure these rights? What rights do the artists retain? Who legally owns these assets?

Sorry for the heavy topic, but it's something that I'd love to learn about and figured this might be a place to go.

Thanks!

If you aren't sure about it, the best way to solve it is to ask the person you are commissioning.

If they send you an email/message that says that you have full rights, then by law you can use the message to prove that you have the rights to whatever it is.

But that is not necessarily the case, for example music I made could only be used in one game in exchange for getting a lower rate on it. So you should definitely ask everyone before commissioning them.

What rights do the artists retain?

they own the art, in writing/code they own the script, in music they own the song.

Who legally owns these assets?

the one that created them.

That isn't true, unless the artist says they do. The artist can also surrender the rights to the person they made the art for.

This is pretty much necessary at times, for example if you are making certain character designs you want the rights to without having to consult with the artist or pay them a fee later.

Whenever I do interface designs, I retain some rights to the design in the contract, people can modify it but they can't remix it completely for a different game because if they credit me for it, it undermines the quality of my design work, and if they don't credit me then it's a problem of not giving credit.

[firecat]

Howdy everyone!

This is a subject that I'm woefully ignorant of, and would really like to educate myself. When contracting or commissioning artists, musicians, programmers, etc. for games, I understand that having the legal rights to the intellectual property matters a great deal. But there's a lot of information on the subject, and I'll admit that I am having some difficulty understanding the nuances of it all.

What exact rights must a developer have to the assets of their game? What is necessary to assure these rights? What rights do the artists retain? Who legally owns these assets?

Sorry for the heavy topic, but it's something that I'd love to learn about and figured this might be a place to go.

Thanks!

If you aren't sure about it, the best way to solve it is to ask the person you are commissioning.

If they send you an email/message that says that you have full rights, then by law you can use the message to prove that you have the rights to whatever it is.

But that is not necessarily the case, for example music I made could only be used in one game in exchange for getting a lower rate on it. So you should definitely ask everyone before commissioning them.

What rights do the artists retain?

they own the art, in writing/code they own the script, in music they own the song.

Who legally owns these assets?

the one that created them.

That isn't true, unless the artist says they do. The artist can also surrender the rights to the person they made the art for.

This is pretty much necessary at times, for example if you are making certain character designs you want the rights to without having to consult with the artist or pay them a fee later.

Whenever I do interface designs, I retain some rights to the design in the contract, people can modify it but they can't remix it completely for a different game because if they credit me for it, it undermines the quality of my design work, and if they don't credit me then it's a problem of not giving credit.

emails are not legal writing, it needs the person signature to be declare official documents or else you have no legal grounds (the reason is due to the text being the same and anyone can and has been using the same front text). you only talked about the art side but when it comes to writing its mostly about copyright or trademark. music is also also tricky thing since it also falls under copyright or trademark.

[papillon]

Thanks for the response firecat. I guess what I'm asking specifically is this:

You said that the developer needs every right to every asset in their game, yet you also said that the programmers/artists/etc. own their created media.

I hope this topic demonstrates why you should be cautious about asking a random forum for legal advice, since some people who know absolutely nothing about the subject will rush in to deliver "advice" that they have randomly made up.

It's a complicated topic and there are a lot of different ways things can be worked out, so trying to give a complete overview here is likely to go wrong. It is possible to get an artist to transfer all rights... in some countries. In others the artist can't actually sign away 100% of their rights. (look up 'moral rights' for more information)

It's possible to arrange only limited rights usage. Developers often prefer to get as many rights as possible, so that they don't have to pay the artist again if they modify the work or use the work in different contexts. For the same reason, creators may be keen to limit the use. You may have heard about certain TV shows that, when released on DVD, had to have their soundtracks replaced with musak, because the rights to use the music were originally tied to broadcast only, and they didn't want to pay to use the music again.

The short and simple answer in many cases is to get a contract laying out the basics - that you are the commissioner, that the artist is making the art, and that the artist is granting you the right to use the art in your game. The chances of either of you actually wanting to go to court over the thing are pretty slim. However, I am not a lawyer.

[papillon]

emails are not legal writing, it needs the person signature to be declare official documents or else you have no legal grounds (the reason is due to the text being the same and anyone can and has been using the same front text). you only talked about the art side but when it comes to writing its mostly about copyright or trademark. music is also also tricky thing since it also falls under copyright or trademark.

Stop.

Please stop.

You are trying to help, but you are not helping. You do not know what you are talking about. I'm not sure you even know what a trademark is.

[SundownKid]

emails are not legal writing, it needs the person signature to be declare official documents or else you have no legal grounds (the reason is due to the text being the same and anyone can and has been using the same front text). you only talked about the art side but when it comes to writing its mostly about copyright or trademark. music is also also tricky thing since it also falls under copyright or trademark.

As someone who actually sat in a class on contracts, I can say for a fact that if it's "in writing" and written by the other person it constitutes a legally binding agreement (at least in the United States). It could be scribbled on a note paper or in an email, but you only have to prove that it was written with the intent to form a contract, it doesnt actually have to have an official document or a signature as people might believe.

Tl;dr, "would you agree to these terms" "yeah, bro" would be the same legally as a full written contract with both people's signatures. One is not less valid than the other, just as long as it's in writing and not a verbal contract.

You can't say that "it could be easily forged" is a valid argument because someone could forge a signature just as easily.

[firecat]

emails are not legal writing, it needs the person signature to be declare official documents or else you have no legal grounds (the reason is due to the text being the same and anyone can and has been using the same front text). you only talked about the art side but when it comes to writing its mostly about copyright or trademark. music is also also tricky thing since it also falls under copyright or trademark.

As someone who actually sat in a class on contracts, I can say for a fact that if it's "in writing" and written by the other person it constitutes a legally binding agreement (at least in the United States). It could be scribbled on a note paper or in an email, but you only have to prove that it was written with the intent to form a contract, it doesnt actually have to have an official document or a signature as people might believe.

Tl;dr, "would you agree to these terms" "yeah, bro" would be the same legally as a full written contract with both people's signatures. One is not less valid than the other, just as long as it's in writing and not a verbal contract.

You can't say that "it could be easily forged" is a valid argument because someone could forge a signature just as easily.

since the client is the one making the case, you can't force the defendant (the artist) to reveal its personal e-mail (right to privacy). under lets go with the usa, since its common topic. you would need a warrant for google to give you the email address, however thats only if the client can proof that the defendant is the one he/she communicate. long story short its nearly impossible to know who you talking to in the internet, i could be obama for all you know.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeKKHxcJfh0[/youtube]

A warrant should contain:

- The correct name of the person or the correct address of the specific place to be searched;
- A list of the items that can be seized or taken by the agent;
- The judge’s signature;
- A deadline for when the search must take place

the defendant has the right to remain silent, so that will lead the client with a poor case and zero cause for the court to allow it. however we have no idea how things will end but surely many artist will know their rights when it comes to unfair search.

[philat]

...yeah, dude, no, don't ask a forum for legal advice. If you're commissioning the assets outright, the language you want is along the lines of "this is a work made for hire, or if this is not a work made for hire, the creator assigns the copyright to me (the dev)" (do not use this actual language, this is conceptual only). There's uncertainty as to whether video game assets can be a work made for hire, but no harm in trying. If you're asking permission to use pre-existing work, then you want a license, but there's a good chance the language there will get rather technical and tricky fast, so you really want actual legal advice.

The above is NOT legal advice. Frankly, copyright law is pretty esoteric bs sometimes, so if you're making anything of significant commercial scale, please consult a lawyer. As papillon noted above, nobody involved really wants to go to court (because that would mean spending probably tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees alone), unless there's actual money to be had (i.e., there is a large-scale, profitable commercial game involved).

Utter disinformation.

I second papillon. Please stop.

[firecat]

...yeah, dude, no, don't ask a forum for legal advice.

Utter disinformation.

I second papillon. Please stop.

seriously another great rule about internet is not being rude, just because you willing to believe certain people that hate me (the evidence is real), doesn't mean you should trust them.

[Chibi Subaru]

This really depends on the laws of your area on copyright stuff as well as who you're commissioning for the work. I recommend going to a copyright/trademark lawyer in your area to get more and clearer information as well as legal advice. I know in the USA that there are lawyers that have free consultation... don't know how other countries do things. There might be some helpful .GOV sites on these types of things, so might want to search those up as well.

For the USA, not everything has to be in writing though in some states there are laws on what kind of contracts have to be written. It is a very good idea to get everything in writing even "what-ifs" to not just protect yourself, but the other party member in the contract and so that everyone understands clearly what will happen if certain events occur. Some types of contracts can be verbal agreements (in the USA... not sure on other countries), but they are harder to prove, especially if there wasn't a third party around. Contract agreements do count if they are in a format of an email as these are time stamped with the date and time things were agreed on.

[Rossfellow]

If I were OP, seeking Commissions advice in a forum, and I had to choose whose advice is more credible, I'd probably listen to the guy who has a library of titles published on Steam.

Just saying.

[Taleweaver]

To everybody in the thread who thinks their opinions and knowledge should never be called into question, and to everybody in the thread who thinks it's okay to attack others for their lack of knowledge:

Please, keep it civil. If you want to convince others of your point of view, quote trusted, certified sources.