Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

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Kisekiko
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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#196 Post by Kisekiko » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:57 pm

sporkysan wrote:I'm not sure why but I don't feel compelled to pursue the Air Path. Maybe I'll feel differently after I finish that route.
You're not alone, sporky. IMHO, although I appreciate the archtype Aurelius represents and generally like them, at least a little bit, but Aurelius just kinda bugged me. Usually, by the end of a story where the MC ends up with the really popular guy,
he stops flirting with other girls altogether. In Aurelius's light ending, Mina ends up trapped in a tower, basically helpless, and infatuated with a guy who has yet to make any clear commitment to her. Kinda irritating how doe-eyed she seems with him in that last CG; reminds me of how, in Varian's "light" ending, she NEVER ONCE says ANYTHING about him CHOKING HER!! :evil: But I digress.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#197 Post by VenusEclipse » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:37 am

@kyminara.
You don't have to feel bad about critiquing it. I agree that the mc is a doormat-ish character in some paths, but I made her tougher in some others. ^.^ other than the art that I must improve in future games, listening to critique that I haven't heard of yet is interesting. I like to know what I could have done better too. :D

While it seems we are no longer in control after a path is given, I hoped that the beginning choices leading to that path would give the mc a specific mindset in a way the player will feel like "it is right" or "I understand how my decisions affected her", and still feel engaged. I found it is successful and it isn't in some areas via feedback.

As with the small interest in the air path, it's understandable since not everyone likes that character while some do. My intention with him is not entirely successful, so that is something for me to think about. It's so interesting to listen to mixed feelings about different paths. :D

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#198 Post by sporkysan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:59 am

About the Air Path (Keep in mind, I still haven't done that path yet. These are just my first impressions.)
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I dislike his character already. I just don't find him as compelling. Aurelius comes on a little too strong for my taste. He is popular, surrounded by girls, AND a hex guardian which makes me a little bit suspicious of him. So when he makes his advances, I really want Mina to say no and sneak away. I'm a little shy and I placed myself in Mina's shoes. But Aurelius doesn't like that. He is really persistent. That can be annoying, but it is a little endearing until he just gives up so easily and goes to the festival with Aysel instead. D: So why doggedly pursue Mina if he doesn't care in the end?
But who knows. Maybe I'll like him more after I find time to do his path.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#199 Post by Kisekiko » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:36 pm

Sporkysan, I think I can explain why Aurelius
agreed to go with Aysel so easily. Even though he's more interested in Mina, he wouldn't want to hurt Aysel's feelings by rejecting her- especially after Mina just declined his invitation. It would be like saying "Yeah, maybe she's out of my league, but that sure doesn't mean you're good enough for me!" Also, since Mina openly made the assumption that Aurelius would be gracious enough to go with Aysel instead, he would look particularly rude. That's the feeling I get, anyway. Plus, with (stereotypically) popular guys like him, it's always best to avoid swooning over him like everyone else does. That makes you a lot more memorable!
That, at least, is a trait of his that I like.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#200 Post by sporkysan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:07 am

Kisekiko wrote:Sporkysan, I think I can explain why Aurelius
agreed to go with Aysel so easily. Even though he's more interested in Mina, he wouldn't want to hurt Aysel's feelings by rejecting her- especially after Mina just declined his invitation. It would be like saying "Yeah, maybe she's out of my league, but that sure doesn't mean you're good enough for me!" Also, since Mina openly made the assumption that Aurelius would be gracious enough to go with Aysel instead, he would look particularly rude. That's the feeling I get, anyway. Plus, with (stereotypically) popular guys like him, it's always best to avoid swooning over him like everyone else does. That makes you a lot more memorable!
That, at least, is a trait of his that I like.
Haha. That's true. And Aysel did seem to be very excited about the invitation. It would probably be rather devastating if he just ignored her.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#201 Post by azureXtwilight » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:03 am

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#202 Post by Kyminara » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:14 pm

VenusEclipse wrote:While it seems we are no longer in control after a path is given, I hoped that the beginning choices leading to that path would give the mc a specific mindset in a way the player will feel like "it is right" or "I understand how my decisions affected her", and still feel engaged. I found it is successful and it isn't in some areas via feedback.
I don't know what other feedback you've gotten on which paths worked and which didn't, but I want to add my perspective on them more specifically now.

The one that stands out most in my mind as missing the mark is the Earth path. You gave a lot of different options on establishing the main character's state of mind as well as some on establishing the relationship between her and the guy, but then you forced all the different combinations into only two possible ends. In my mind, there should have been at least 3-4 different possible endings based on what I percieved to be three different variables at play.
For example...
If Mina stands firm on her ideals, but fails to make Caius understand, the light ending does not make sense, and neither does the dark ending. Also, there is no option for Mina to get so fed up with Caius's antics that she attempts to leave him. Because of this, the romance angle felt forced and Caius's state of mind seemed arbitrarily chosen for the sake of the final result.
When I mulled it over enough in my mind, I realized that in order for the Earth path to feel right, be flexible, and still maintain all the same story elements it presented, it would be large enough to make it's own VN in just that path. That is why I apologized for expecting more than I should there.

The Fire path, on the other hand, seemed very linear by design. The only choices you're given are to either make Mina be a complete doormat and let the guy work out his story on his own, or be slightly less of a doormat and get only a slightly different ending result. There's no point in which you can break out and outright resist the predetermined flow of the story. I would have preferred having the option even if it only led to the dark ending again.

The Water Path was just... so... long. However, when I look at it based on whether the main character's mindset was well enough established for the rest of what folllowed, I can't see anything wrong with it.

The Air path was also good, but
I really wanted Aysel to be more important in this. She betrays Mina, but then changes her mind. Is there no ending where she is willing to let her rival get taken away?
This path focuses more on how Mina influences the mindset of others, and less on her own personality. This means the story fits just fine, but leaves open the opportunity for more options later in the path. There was definately nothing lacking in the story as it was, but the missed opportunities made me wish for so much more.

The Life Path had lots of choices to keep the player actively involved, and it had more ending options, which was nice. However, I think you took it just one step too far with the "Hesitant End". That one actually left me saying "Why is that even a choice here"? It contradicted everything the main character was doing (without player control) up to that moment.
Seeing difference between this and the other paths, now I realize how hard it must have been to make them all as good as they were. There's some room for improvement, but I should have realized sooner that the story itself was more important than these details.

@sporkysan
Aurelius scared me too. Once I did the path, though, it made a lot more sense. He's just.. umm... aggressivly friendly.
@azure
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I wish I could draw so well.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#203 Post by Aleema » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:36 pm

Kyminara wrote:The Air path was also good, but
I really wanted Aysel to be more important in this. She betrays Mina, but then changes her mind. Is there no ending where she is willing to let her rival get taken away?
While I was testing the path, that was the only ending I was getting. xD So I can vouch that it's there.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#204 Post by Elemental-Butterfly » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:54 am

sporkysan wrote:
Kyminara wrote:I did almost the exact same thing as you! The Water Path Light Ending is my favorite of all the paths so far. (I've only gone through half of them now.)
Doing this path first kinda spoiled the rest for me a little, though.

More Spoilers:
When you choose a different path and the mysterious voice says goodbye forever, it almost makes me feel like crying because I already know who it really is. Is he sacrificing himself at that moment just to give you time to save another guy? Since we never see him again, that's the logical conclusion.
I've played a few more paths (I still have Light and Air left) and I concur. So far the Water Path Light Ending is still my favorite as well. I do have to say a twisted part of me also enjoys the Water Path Dark Ending though.
Why didn't I realize that Zareh might be sacrificing himself? That does make sense. I'm going to cry now when I play a different path. It totally explains why he doesn't go to find her later on even though he loves her so much. You know, cause he's dead; he can't.
wait a minute... he dies O_O how?

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#205 Post by sporkysan » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:51 am

Elemental-Butterfly wrote:wait a minute... he dies O_O how?
Keep in mind this is just speculation on our part.
After Mina is captured at the end of the festival, remember the young boy that she has a vision of? Well from the Water Path, we learn that it is a young version of Zareh. He say something along the lines of helping you to escape. The cave collapses and you escape with one of the love interests. Well it sounds like Zareh probably died while creating the diversion for you to escape. The young boy (Zareh) wishes you luck as you escape which implies that he is saying goodbye. That explains why the Oracle doesn't come looking for Mina later and why you are stuck with whoever you saved. And notice that you never see a vision of that little boy anymore.
I think that is accurate. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#206 Post by Elemental-Butterfly » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:34 pm

sporkysan wrote:
Elemental-Butterfly wrote:wait a minute... he dies O_O how?
Keep in mind this is just speculation on our part.
After Mina is captured at the end of the festival, remember the young boy that she has a vision of? Well from the Water Path, we learn that it is a young version of Zareh. He say something along the lines of helping you to escape. The cave collapses and you escape with one of the love interests. Well it sounds like Zareh probably died while creating the diversion for you to escape. The young boy (Zareh) wishes you luck as you escape which implies that he is saying goodbye. That explains why the Oracle doesn't come looking for Mina later and why you are stuck with whoever you saved. And notice that you never see a vision of that little boy anymore.
I think that is accurate. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.
O_O thank you, although he did say goodbye, i did not think that he died.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#207 Post by sporkysan » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:55 am

Elemental-Butterfly wrote:O_O thank you, although he did say goodbye, i did not think that he died.
I was surprised about that too. Keep in mind that his death is just speculation based on what happened. There is currently no hard and fast evidence or confirmation that he is actually dead.

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#208 Post by Elemental-Butterfly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:45 pm

sporkysan wrote:
Elemental-Butterfly wrote:O_O thank you, although he did say goodbye, i did not think that he died.
I was surprised about that too. Keep in mind that his death is just speculation based on what happened. There is currently no hard and fast evidence or confirmation that he is actually dead.
that is true. i wonder if he really died. Image

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#209 Post by Kanari » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:46 pm

Played this a long time ago, when I was still using my old Lemma Soft account. xD
Like... August 20. o u o;
Anyway, I totally lalaloved it~ <3

Are you planning to make a sequel? :3

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Re: Frozen Essence: V.2 uploaded

#210 Post by Riviera » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:29 pm

Posting again to re-empasize how much I like this game <3

Finally getting the time to explore the other paths. Ahh, Rune, you're such a defrosting ice queen. Have more hugs. And a few head-pats. And these cookies. And.. oh you get the idea.

Can't wait for the next version.
Will edit/proofread for cookies.

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