LSF Spirit (or "Dude, where's my forum?")

[PrettySammy09]

Been around for awhile, post less than I used to, just want to say I remember the days of people being *gasp* supportive/friendly! It's true, as we plant more trees, there are bound to be more bad apples, but if I could just give this advice:

Haters gonna hate. If you feel like someone's being jerky, legitimately ignore him or her because people who disregard other people's feelings should be disregarded themselves.

If you're a nice person, the chance of you changing a jerk's mind is minuscule. Pick your battles, nice guys - don't waste your time on losers.

Let's keep doing this hobby/art-form as a community! Those who don't want to have a community spirit aren't our business anyway!

[pondrthis]

Come on now. I'm not trying to support hate speech here, but not everyone who passionately disagrees with you is a jerk and/or loser to be entirely disregarded.

I think you shouldn't disregard anyone. That's far more rude than trying to make a point. I think the better alternative would be to listen closely and if you have nothing further constructive to say, let it drop. Once the "jerk" starts repeating him- or herself, only then is it appropriate to "disregard" any further comments.

The best you can do is not stoop to an aggressor's level. That means you should avoid ad hominems and any other blatantly purposeless offense. Seeing as saying (or implying through ignoring someone) "your opinion isn't even worth reading" is a blatantly purposeless offense in my book, I wouldn't agree that it's the best course of action.

[sn0w255]

Glad to see you're back! Also looking forward to the new main page for your site.

[fleet]

People who post free VNs are volunteers. Volunteers perform work for free because they like what they are doing. Most are willing to accept politely offered advice. Ignore them, insult them or be rude and they will go elsewhere to volunteer.

[Auro-Cyanide]

People who post free VNs are volunteers. Volunteers perform work for free because they like what they are doing. Most are willing to accept politely offered advice. Ignore them, insult them or be rude and they will go elsewhere to volunteer.

They are not really volunteers, more hobbyists (as in the work itself is not necessary on any level, games being entertainment and all). They do what they do for multiple reasons, but on some level I hope they enjoy it. I'm not sure why they would do it otherwise. Attention and praise definitely comes into the equation (I have a massive ego >>), but those things also need to be earnt. That is one of the things that make it rewarding. It is one of the reasons I have spent over 5 years practicing art. Anything worth something is worth working hard for.

[fleet]

"Ignore them, insult them or be rude and they will go elsewhere to volunteer."

[Elenakiara]

I figure that if someone takes criticism too seriously or is paranoid, as I was when I was a young teen online and thought that everyone disliked me, it won't be a very big loss for the whole community. While I like to support everyone, I find that some people in life are too much of a hassle to constantly tip-toe around.

[fleet]

All of the encouragement for new VN authors is appreciated.

[Elenakiara]

Well of course, I never said that VN authors shouldn't be encouraged. Personally, I was quite happy getting criticized for some ideas in my current story. I'd rather notice a potential plot hole or error in my writing style now, than if I'd be heading head-first into a wall with people only saying 'good luck'.

I know that I'll receive some bad reviews on my story when it'll be out, as we can't please the whole population. It will make me more knowledgeable for the next VN that I'll start writing. xD I just don't understand how we can help each other out by simply being 'yes'-people all the way?

[fleet]

. . . xD I just don't understand how we can help each other out by simply being 'yes'-people all the way?

How we can help each other.

Imagine yourself as a new member of the forum and have just received your first feedback on something you submitted.
The feedback says
"Your writing is bad" followed by some excellent points on how to improve it.

Would that encourage you, or make you see red?

How about tempering the critique by saying.
"I think you can make improvements in your writing." followed by advice.

Also, I'd recommend trying to find two things about the VN on which to praise the newbie. Such as "Your story was original, I liked the backgrounds, there were no spelling or grammar errors, I like the way you established the backstory, "
Thanks for reading my rantings.

Very respectfully,
fleet

[SusanTheCat]

A friend of mine used to work in a clothing store for old ladies. She learned lots of useful things to say about an outfit without criticizing.

e.g.:
That fits you well.
That's a good colour for you.
That's really popular this year.

I try to find things that they honestly did well and applaud them so that they will keep doing those things well.

@fleet given your examples above. I would still prefer the "You're writing is bad" comment versus hearing nothing and thinking my writing is great. But I'm weird that way.

Susan

[Elenakiara]

@ SusanTheCat: Count me in as one of the weird people who still prefer the first option. xD

I guess, in the end of the day, it really depends on each person's personality. As someone who's sensitive, the person would just have to write in the beginning of the post: "I don't take criticism too well, so can you all be nice with it? ^^;". I think that it would help solve these potential conflicts I guess.

[lordcloudx]

I believe that someone who has truly worked hard on his/her game would be sensitive to it by default. How "hard" someone has worked on a game is something relative that may not show too well in the end result.

In any case, I think that saying something along the lines of "please be gentle with the critique," is only asking people to sugarcoat their comments, which isn't really helpful nor sincere. I think just observing a certain degree of courtesy and consideration for the feelings of the person behind the game (as per SusanTheCat's suggestion) would be preferable and should be the default behavior/attitude when posting critique rather than the game-maker specifically having to ask for it. This is especially true for finished games as opposed to work-in-progress threads, in my opinion.

Oh and, if you click the link to the ezine on my sig, one of us wrote an article about critique which might be relevant.

[nope]

I'm not getting into this debate because we had it several times before. The agreed policy is that criticism is welcomed by default (imagine link I couldn't find).
This means that unless you specifically request not to, people will speak out their opinion.

[Blue Lemma]

I hope people would state their opinions tactfully with newbies, but as long as the criticism is focused on the work itself and not personal attacks on the author, and it's not completely over the top, I'm not inclined to play Manners Police. That would be too heavy-handed. When you put something out on the internet, people are going to say what they think about it.

About the word "volunteer", I think that applies in cases where someone solicited help with something. For instance, you could volunteer to give your thoughtful comments when an author asks for comments on a game, or you could volunteer for someone's project as an artist, writer, etc. I don't think of making a game in general as volunteering. No one asks us to make these free games. We do it because we enjoy it, we want to improve our skills, or we have something to say. It's not as a service to anyone else.