Female characters - why they are how they are

[Celianna]

That's exactly what bothers a lot of women who play BxG novels. Girls aren't an alien species that behave completely different from the way you do. Because you have no idea that we're pretty much the same, you start to project how you think a girl should act, or behave, and that bothers a lot of girls. Not only that, when breast size comes into picture (when it is obvious fanservice for one), it seems the girl's worth is solemnly based on the size of her breasts, or how revealing they are, because the male writers themselves find huge breasts very appealing. Whereas girls playing it would think; "Great, we're being judged on our breast size again.".

We're not that different from each other. You'd probably be fine writing a female character as a male character, but with some slight differences. For example, men are more prone to violence and verbal insults, whereas women not so much. Lots of women (even if unconsciously) approach male stranger as if he were Schrödinger's rapist, whereas no man will ever do this.

That's about it though, we pretty much behave exactly like guys, we're not that 'alien'.

[Aleema]

Although I do want to point out that when it comes to flirting, there are some more notable differences. (Femshep's sex predator flirts in ME2 seemed really out of character, to me at least.)

[Fawn]

Are you saying most men won't like otome games but women would like most BxG?

To be honest I've never known a guy who can like (or stand) most typical otome game plots and characters... I myself can't stand them a lot of the time.

One shiny cute flowery guy that barely looks male is enough, but when the entire cast is like that, then it just becomes repulsive. However I believe anyone can like a cute girl... Haven't you seen the parents that spoil the crap out of their daughters and leave their sons in the dirt because they're not as cute? haha.

Another point is that I doubt it's easy for most men to relate to the flowery males girls dream of (Unless they dream of them to, which isn't often). In a bxg game atleast you have a girl you can possibly relate to.


And... Women CAN be confusing. There's no doubt about it. I myself have looked at something I did and said "Wait, was there even a logical reason for doing that?"

[papillon]

Also on the

and I believe that most women would agree that the opposite, GxG, is CLEARLY aimed at men

I've heard people say that, and I have a long-standing argument with some people who refuse to classify games as otome if they include yuri options. Because anyone who knows me and pays attention to the works I produce (and consume) should find it blindingly obvious that I include GxG options for ME, not for MEN. Even TVtropes makes jokes about that.

For that matter, anyone thinking Scout is writing GxG to pander to men needs a good knock on the head!

Now, writers do sometimes include GxG in GxB games with the thought that it will get more guys willing to play, but it's not exactly the only reason.

[jack_norton]

About 75% of Spirited Heart yuri expansion buyers so far are women. Of course, it might be just teenagers buying with their mother credit card, but 75% is a percentage a bit hard to be completely false/faked!

[Aleema]

GxG should probably not be considered purely male driven. "Yuri" maybe, since it's a distinct style we can sample, like "yaoi." But all BxB stuff isn't just for women. Some is legit for gay men, and yay for that (and the female equivalent). Having written a lot of GxG, I know it's not just to pander to men. But I sure see a huge influx of male interest when it's revealed.

[Celianna]

One big breasted girl is enough, but when the entire cast is like that, then it just becomes repulsive. However I believe anyone can like a muscular guy... Haven't you seen the parents that spoil the crap out of their sons and leave their daughters in the dirt because they're not as strong? haha.

Another point is that I doubt it's easy for most girls to relate to the big breasted girls that guys dream of (Unless they dream of them to, which isn't often). In a gxb game atleast you have a guy you can possibly relate to.

Just switching up some words here, see how it also counts for the opposite side?

And no, I can't relate to any girl in a BxG VN. Not when they're drawn like this. It's clear they only exist to entice the male player.

[yummy]

I think Cloudie somehow explained why most japanese commercial VNs are male oriented. And Lemma has brought notable food for thought in this matter.
But the VN original market is only a part of the issue.

There is also the cultural gap about immediate action/reaction that is part of the western gaming culture (the famous culture gap between games originated from Japan and games from the west).
Why do I bring out these topics about why women characters are unrealistic?

That's because there is actually a difference between bishoujo games/galgames and visual novels. And the difference is huge. And it explains why otome games were born in Japan.

Bishoujo games ARE male oriented, because of the narration style, visual presentation, topics covered... And as previously said, it's because they are made for a specific market, with precise demands (fueled with enquetes, regular feedbacks).
Japanese game makers noticed that there was a demand for more girl sided topics. After all, there was already a market with female doujinshi! And after all, woman is about 49.5% of the sex ratio over there (45% over 15 years).
There was room for a market and the market was mature enough.

Is it the case in the western gaming world? Not at all. The market size is ridiculous, compared to the japanese one.
Most western game producers are taking huge risks, even indies, to create even the market (ever heard of Hirameki International Group, Inc. ?).
That's why a game company is more than favorable to sell works that will sell. But again, in this emerging market, it's more like a bet than anything else.

YES, it's all about monnies. You can whine all you want, if the game companies or the producers don't sell, they stop providing these games.

Now, we have a very particular situation here.
The amateur that we mostly are do not particularly care about an existing market or whatever comes out from it. And that's our chance.
So, ladies, if you want to provide the world your opinion about female characters, then it's best if you flesh them out, by making your own games for example.

But if you want the big companies to provide you with female characters that suit your tastes, it would be very hard. Not impossible, but very hard.
At least Bioware seems to begin to realize girls like action games as guys do.

Ah and about the fact most guys find a girl who likes playing video games strange: it's because the gaming world is an unfair reflection of our western culture. I won't deny that there are talented girls and stuff.
It's because there are a lot of hormonal waged wars in the process. Guys don't like to lose, or are sore losers. And they don't want girls to prosper in their gaming world. Although they fantasize from time to time about gaming girls. So there are lots of psychological wars, harassment even, and generally, bad jokes and all.
It's no surprise girls don't like this atmosphere. Because they want cooperation, social networks, friends even.
That's why girls are well represented in games where social networks is better represented. And why guys cater to them once they know the avatar on the other side is played by a girl.

If you're a girl in WOW for example, you can make the test: simply use a microphone to "show" you're a girl, it works wonders. (I let my sister speak and voilà, VIP treatment)

[AxemRed]

And no, I can't relate to any girl in a BxG VN. Not when they're drawn like this. It's clear they only exist to entice the male player.

Comically oversized breasts are actually rather uncommon in BxG VNs.

[papillon]

Not *that* uncommon. I've seen plenty, although it's not standard for every character in a game to be that way. There are plenty of games, though, where most or every datable female character is clearly drawn in such a way that you're supposed to be focusing on their sexual attributes. Look at the character list for Demonbane, for a quick example.

[yummy]

Not *that* uncommon. I've seen plenty, although it's not standard for every character in a game to be that way. There are plenty of games, though, where most or every datable female character is clearly drawn in such a way that you're supposed to be focusing on their sexual attributes. Look at the character list for Demonbane, for a quick example.

That's because Demonbane is aimed at a young male adult audience.

There *are* games where girls have "normal" bust size, I assure you. Natsuzora Kanata, Rewrite, Makai Tenshi Jibril series, etc etc.

[Taleweaver]

There *are* games where girls have "normal" bust size, I assure you. Natsuzora Kanata, Rewrite, Makai Tenshi Jibril series, etc etc.

Most Key titles do as well, as do the majority of the typical "high school romance BxG". The games featuring huge knockers are usually named "Do You Like Horny Bunnies" and flaunt the fact that they are more or less tasteful fap material.

And to the posters above, point taken, GxG caters to men as well as to lesbian women, as BxB caters to women as well as gay men. At least some of the equal-chromosome-pairings do.

[yummy]

Actually, the titles I have suggested are from three most common types of VN: ADV-VN (or classic bishoujo game), Nakige, "Nukige" (with tendency to Netorare).
But yeah with titles that describe horny situations, it's no wonder you have woman characters with overdevelopped anatomy parts and immoral situations, depending on the game audience. Because these are nuki-games.

[Anthy]

GxG isn't just for lesbian women... *cough* Though I think it fares better with lesbians compared to how gay guys tend to feel about BL/yaoi, because most yuri authors I know ARE women. Yuri/Class S genre was invented by women, not for a man's pleasure. Almost all stories centralizing or featuring yuri I know were either published in shoujo or josei magazines. I mean, geez... Sailor Moon even. Yuri is great, because it lacks a lot of the pitfalls in run-of-the-mill shoujo manga and smut relationships while having more authenticity than BL. Even obviously male-oriented stuff like Strawberry Panic was written by a woman.

(and some yuri, I don't think it's for men even the tiniest bit... Oniisama e is one of my favorite anime/manga, but I dunno if the average guy could stomach it. Still surprised/weirded out at the male following of Marimite, though...)

[Samu-kun]

On an entirely different note, what's up with all the people switching their avatars to ponies lately? God damn, it's a pony invasion!!!