Ren'Py's Public Image

[Ren]

I like her outfit in the second picture very much, expecially the skirt and how it's coloured:3
Though I like her expression in the first picture more so...uhm, i like them both for different reasons?*_*

...i'm not really helpful, am i...

Ah?What comic, did i lose something interesting?;_;

[RedSlash]

My opinion: I really like the second one. Business woman! yay! However, I'm kinda leaning towards the first one for the demo, cause her clothing give her a youthful look.

[PyTom]

Well, I think you nailed the general look spot-on. I think the businessy version is probably spot-on for the demo... and perhaps the casual version could be used for other promotional material.

The skin color is maybe a bit on the yellow side for a character that's intended to be a Caucasian-mutt like myself. And for your reference, the headband-thing should have a metallic texture to it, if possible.

I'm also wondering if the outfit could be made a little lighter in color, especially the outer-shirt. It should be business like... but she is a game character, and so it shouldn't be too dark.

Overall, this is really good. Ren'Py 5.6/6 will be better for your art... thanks for doing it!

[mikey]

My opinion: I really like the second one. Business woman! yay! However, I'm kinda leaning towards the first one for the demo, cause her clothing give her a youthful look.

To me, the clothes aren't entirely business-like. More like slightly formal-ish. Therefore I'd be for the "business" look, but hey, let's have them both... I mean for the demo game, Eileen can just get redressed, right?

Anyway, I have continuing fant... *cough* thoughts about jungle Eileen with the Python snake. I think it's the collest idea ever.

One word to the Firefox "Get Firefox" thing - I absolutely hate that. I am constantly bombarded with sites and people who more or less intrusively push this software with buttons, banners and statements of how crappy IE is and so on. It doesn't matter whether that's true, it's the WAY the Firefox is being pushed that completely puts me off. Mind you, I am using Firefox as we speak, because it's a good product, but the way it's being marketed really disappoints me. It may be a result of a few overeager Firefox activists that I just happened to run across, but I'd preferred to find out about Firefox differently. Of course the ironic thing is that it was one of such aggressive messages that made me aware of it... so it's kind of a circle, really.

[Watercolorheart]

Er, I really liked the Eileen sprites. They were very good. Very, very good.

Coming from me, I was really very impressed with your work and I don't know how to effectively say that I liked the style *better* than the usual good-quality work you see in professional Ren'Ai games.

[DaFool]

Piroshiki, do you have a deviantart or blog or website where you put art up?

Eileen's face is professional-grade, albeit generic (can't help it though, since it's anime-style after all).

The posing is excellent and something that I rarely see done well by nonprofessionals.

These look like professional concept art. If only they keep them looking like concept art and not chug them through CG and ink & paint factories that take out the humanity and soul in them--I think that's what BCS was referring to with being a style preferrable to the professionals.

[monele]

Mm, new Eileen looking good ^^. Seeing this in-demo should be a blast ^^

EDIT : Wait wait wait... Didn't you already participate in some Ren'Ai project ? ô_o... I suddenly realize your style is very familiar... Either that or your inspiration comes from an artist I know well...... or I'm just tired ^^;...

[Jake]

I suddenly realize your style is very familiar... Either that or your inspiration comes from an artist I know well...... or I'm just tired ^^;...

The first one reminded me of Yoshitoshi Abe's stuff - it's got a similar kind of rendering and familiar proportions - but the second one not so much. I'd wonder how much of it it just by virtue of working in pencil and watercolour if it wasn't a medium I'd tried and not had nearly so much success with myself.


Which isn't to say I don't like them both, 'cause I really do. I'm not convinced that the pink hair is such an identifying characteristic, not least 'cause when it was mentioned my first response was "Wait... Eileen has pink hair?" - but it's not like it loses anything for it.

[RedSlash]

let's have them both... I mean for the demo game

Now that you mention it, I forgot of the possibily of being able to use both in the demo, to which I agree.

One word to the Firefox "Get Firefox" thing - I absolutely hate that. I am constantly bombarded with sites and people who more or less intrusively push this software with buttons........

However, this method works. But we don't have to do it as agressively as Firefox does to achieve the same effect. We just select a logo and phrase that is non-intrusive, yet effective, and I thought that "Powered by ren'py" did a better job at that more over "Made with the ren'py visual novel engine", which was the point I wanted to make.

[Rika-chan]

Well, I can give you the impressions of someone who's new to the program. I can't really tell you how to fix it, that's your job.

First, the main site is very non-user-friendly. I realize that you're trying to redesign it, but I'm not sure that the redesign is all that great. I know you love your rounded rectangles, but I think it looks unprofessional and frankly, dull. I don't even care for that interface in the game, and I'm trying to learn how to change it.

Which brings me to the non-user-friendliness. It's a pain in the ass to figure out how to do anything in this program, and yes, I've programmed before. It's not the program, it's the lack of documentation. Your reference manual is dry and obtuse. Half the time, I barely even know what you're talking about. Sure, you understand it, but that's because you wrote the program. As a newbie, I think it needs more coding examples, and clear explanations of exactly what these different functions do, and what I would use them for, not to mention, where to find them in the actual code. (Gee, is this found in my game script, or preferences, or themes?)

I also realize that there are tutorials out there. Some links would be nice. You link to the Ren'ai Games tutorials, but it only goes so far. For some reason, there's an interesting "Ren'Py Trac" page, but I only found it by searching through the forums, which I guarantee most will not do. God knows what else I'm missing.

I should ask on the forums, if I have questions. Come on, do you really want to be fielding all these obvious newbie questions? And what if I don't like asking questions? Why not have a comprehensive guide, or better yet, a "Hello, world!" tutorial that helps beginners figure out what they're doing in this program. And no, I don't want to look through code. That's boring and sometimes still unhelpful, because of your obtuse comments. If I have no idea how the program is supposed to work, how will I know where to look in the code?

A silly example. I was trying to figure out how to use the pause command, so I searched your reference manual. I found this example:

renpy.pause (delay=None, music=None):

So I put it in like that (actually like: renpy.pause():). No surprise to you, it didn't work. I was getting very frustrated, and tried all sorts of combinations to try to make it work. I finally found the answer, briefly mentioned, on the Ren'ai Games tutorial, that showed the command with a $ in front, and no colon. I tried it, and it worked. Maybe it's obvious to you that you put a $ in front of whatever it is (a function?), but excuse me, I've never programmed in python before. Why didn't you have an example of what the code should look like in your game? I'm not going to read the reference manual from the beginning for one little question.

Maybe it's my impression, but these forums seem a little cliquish (what forums don't, is the real question). Even something as simple as responding to a friend, rather than a newb, can make you seem like a clique. It's very weird to be ignored, intentional or not. It's like I'm not even here, and why did I bother posting? Something for you to think about.

Maybe this comes off as a rant. I might be venting a little bit. It's only because I've been trying to comprehend this program for the past three days, and it's been slow going. Before you say "it takes time" I'm actually a very fast learner, and like I said, I have some programming experience. Imagine what slow learners and those who've never even looked at code might think of this program.

Anyway, you said you want to improve your public image. Start by making Ren'Py more user-friendly, especially to newbies. Make your website professional looking, consise, easy to find, and full of helpful links (on the side, not something that I have to scroll down and search through). Make the documentation on Ren'Py understandable for a layman, with plenty of explanations and examples. Write tutorials that help a newbie write a program, and understand what they're doing when they write that program. Write mid-level tutorials for those of us who want to customize our games, but don't quite understand how. You complained in one post about how users weren't using the menu customization options that you'd implemented. Maybe it's because they don't know how.

Or, you can completely ignore me and wonder why your community is so small, why people don't stay around, and why a lesser program, Blade, is more popular.

[ShiraiJunichi]

Welcome to the forums ^_^ .

Maybe it's my impression, but these forums seem a little cliquish (what forums don't, is the real question). Even something as simple as responding to a friend, rather than a newb, can make you seem like a clique. It's very weird to be ignored, intentional or not. It's like I'm not even here, and why did I bother posting? Something for you to think about.

Actually, I think it is just your impression. Generally people comment on how friendly it is here. I think everyone is treated equally, regardless of post count.
I looked over your posts, and people had responded to them (at least, I recall that monele complimented the pictures you posted). Had you asked specific questions, particularly about Ren'Py, I guarantee that you would have had quick responses. If you had merely asked about the pause after five minutes of failure, PyTom or some other forum member would've happily pointed out the problem. Believe it or not- these forums are actually the best Ren'Py support available. PyTom finds it easier to answer specific questions on here- then develop a document that will try to address all questions any new comer could have. Currently this works- but only because the community is relatively small.
The hype for Ren'Py just started a few days ago, and we're still working on a lot of things- tutorials are one of them. The Ren'Py reference manual was never meant to help someone learn how to use Ren'Py- it was meant to be what it is- a reference. My guess is that the reference manual won't ever be very user-friendly; however, I also predict that we'll have some good tutorials at some point.
Website is also under heavy development- everything is iffy right now. Nothing is set in stone, and any templates that have been developed thus far are purely experimental.

No one's ignoring you- in fact, I'll bet some people are looking forward to your work- you have what looks like the potential enthusiasm and dedication to finish your game. Good luck!

[PyTom]

I think Rika-Chan has made several points. The user manual is a mess, and needs editing by someone who isn't super-familiar with python and Ren'Py. And I/we have been relying to much on support through the forum, rather then simply properly documenting things.

I'm glad Rika-Chan was honest about what she thought the shortcomings of Ren'Py were... we need this sort of feedback if we are to improve.

My guess is that the reference manual won't ever be very user-friendly; however, I also predict that we'll have some good tutorials at some point.

I'm hoping for this. And perhaps we can figure out a way to better organize the refman, or at least make it less... um... less like the way I wrote it.

[ShiraiJunichi]

Updated the webpage. I think all the designs thus far have been too rounded- so I simplified this one, and I think it looks better. I also created a simple temporary banner/logo.
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~jasons/renpy/

[RedSlash]

I should ask on the forums, if I have questions. Come on, do you really want to be fielding all these obvious newbie questions? And what if I don't like asking questions? Why not have a comprehensive guide, or better yet, a "Hello, world!" tutorial that helps beginners figure out what they're doing in this program.

Hmm.. from my experience, asking newbie questions usually gets you the RTFM reply (or gets your thread locked for not reading the rules), which doesn't seem to happen here. So I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not. I agree, though, with having a more comprehensive tutorial.

[lordcloudx]

I should ask on the forums, if I have questions. Come on, do you really want to be fielding all these obvious newbie questions? And what if I don't like asking questions? Why not have a comprehensive guide, or better yet, a "Hello, world!" tutorial that helps beginners figure out what they're doing in this program.

Hmm.. from my experience, asking newbie questions usually gets you the RTFM reply (or gets your thread locked for not reading the rules), which doesn't seem to happen here. So I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not. I agree, though, with having a more comprehensive tutorial.

true enough. this is one reason I like hanging around here. The mods/admins merely give you a polite warning once you're stepping out of the line but no one here is on "kill the noob" mode. Perhaps, one of the reasons is that most of the game creators (excluding me) are ...well... older.

hmmm... regarding Rika-chan's comment, how about a gui for renpy with buttons and everything that automates writing the game text? or adding simple stuff like music, story branches etc. Sort of like the adrift editor.

btw, from a distance, new Eileen looks like Akari (to heart)