Implied sex

[teankun]

We all know that many (if not overwhelming most) of bishoujo games have very explicit sex scenes, but what are some titles (either fan, free, or other) that have sex simply implied (such as the characters laying on the bed and a light goes out) or at least not as explicit (such as bed covers concealing the characters' nudity)?

[monele]

Well... O3 has half-implied sex ? It's still made clear there is sex going on but you don't see anything and it's done in a very respectful way.

[Blue Lemma]

I think some of the Hirameki titles had this, too... like Amusement Park? The thing with Chihaya? (not that I'd recommend playing it - get Ever17 instead ) Also, Phantom of Inferno.

Hanafuda Club will have this, although there will probably be breasts and stuff... but I'm trying to avoid full-on visual depictions of sex/hentai ^_^; I want to keep it realistic and sexually appealing without making the player feel too dirty later

[mikey]

I think some of the Hirameki titles had this, too... like Amusement Park? The thing with Chihaya? (not that I'd recommend playing it - get Ever17 instead ) Also, Phantom of Inferno.

Well, in my book AP is good and that's the end of it. I recommend it. Wanna fight? (I'm not comparing it to e17, just... IMO it's an okay title. If only because it has no sex scenes.)

Actually, I just wanted to point out that the Hirameki titles, as well as Eve Burst Error are simply edited versions. So the original had sex in it, it was just ignored in the US release. Therefore, implied sex- yes, but not originally. For most of the time, it's the something that's missing that's implying the scene. Also, see Kira Snowdrop, that has been edited as well. In any case, the thing is the original version HAD sex scenes in it. And in general, I don't like the 18+/ALL dual releases, either have sex in there or remove it entirely... this double-faced nature is a bit dishonest, but that's maybe only if you want to get really philosophical about the issue - on most days I don't really care.

[PyTom]

Actually, from what I understand, Hourglass of Summer and Ever 17 didn't have adult scenes in their original releases. The rest of the games did.

What I dislike is the removal of scenes that are necessary to the reward structure of the story. In many games, the game builds up to the sex scenes, and they generally are part of the resolution of the story. Compare this to HoS and E17, where solving a mystery is the focus of the resolution.

(Although, if you think about it enough, Ever17 had a massively roundabout way of implying the occurrence of relations between two of the main characters...)

[Blue Lemma]

Well, in my book AP is good and that's the end of it. I recommend it. Wanna fight?

*sets to 4 starts turbo... picks Ryu* Round 1 - FIGHT!

And in general, I don't like the 18+/ALL dual releases, either have sex in there or remove it entirely... this double-faced nature is a bit dishonest, but that's maybe only if you want to get really philosophical about the issue - on most days I don't really care.

I think the sex should just be left in. From an artistic standpoint, anyway. I know that makes obstacles with English localizations a lot, but if I were in charge of the world, no scenes would be deleted in the translations! Everything must be left in! Sexy or not! Yeah, I'm a purist like that ^_^;

What I dislike is the removal of scenes that are necessary to the reward structure of the story. In many games, the game builds up to the sex scenes, and they generally are part of the resolution of the story.

Me too! If it's built in, just leave it in >_< In a perfect world, I guess. Then again, sometimes the scenes are a little... ...yeah....
I'll go a little farther, though, and say that in a game based around romantic relationships, leaving sex out seems stupid. Really, don't most serious romantic relationships involve sex at some time or another? Isn't that a big part eventually? I know some people in the U.S. especially like to sweep it under the rug like "oh, no sex or *gasp* premarital sex here!" but let's face reality. On that note, good for Ori, Ochi, Onoe

[Alessio]

Hourglass of Summer and Ever 17 didn't have adult scenes in their original releases.

HoS seems to be an interesting case. According to this walkthrough:

There was originally a PS2 version, that can't be run on DVD players. There is also a PC version, released half a year after the PS2 version, which has hentai pictures added in.

Now that's weird.

[mikey]

I think the sex should just be left in. From an artistic standpoint, anyway. I know that makes obstacles with English localizations a lot, but if I were in charge of the world, no scenes would be deleted in the translations! Everything must be left in! Sexy or not! Yeah, I'm a purist like that ^_^;

Having sex scenes also says a lot about the production as such, its intended audience and so on. A lot of the times the game is 18+ with its images, but the stories are rarely interesting to anyone who is past their teens.

[DaFool]

Here's the thing why most games are about high schoolers in their senior year losing their virginity or something... they could still make for idealistic characters.

Who would want an practical adult protagonist who has to bust his or her ass to pay for the rent for the crappy apartment? Such characters are no fun at all.

Due to the nature of the medium, most visual novels are slice-of-life with elements of romance. High school is the perfect setting, since the characters are old enough to deal with love, life, and the birds-and-bees, while at the same time they have no responsibilities, and no worries other than oh-no-I'm-going-to-be-a-full-adult.

I've been thinking about how to make a story truly mature without resorting to juvenile elements--explicit sex and/or violence. What I've found is that the possibilities are constrained because you have to be 'practical' or 'realistic'. Sci-fi and fantasy are still considered juvenile and immature in some literature circles.

But while exploring the options for 'realistic' scenarios that explore the human condition, I often hit upon things like vices, politics, religion. Seriously, I don't want to deal with them...there's too much of them in the news already. So all that's left within the 'adult' realm is sex, which nobody ever tires of.

I don't mind explicit nor implied, they're fine as long as they are consistent with character. I'm annoyed when certain acts are inconsistent with character...like a conservative former virgin going all-out in the first encounter or whatever (I mean yeah shy girl outside wildcat in bed is a nice fantasy BUT...)

[Alessio]

Who would want an practical adult protagonist who has to bust his or her ass to pay for the rent for the crappy apartment?

:)))) Good one! But actually this could be interesting, too. This setting will be a part of the story in the VN after my next one.

[chronoluminaire]

Who would want an practical adult protagonist who has to bust his or her ass to pay for the rent for the crappy apartment? Such characters are no fun at all.

I don't agree with this. Older and/or mature protagonists can be very interesting. But the thing is, the story has to be interesting... I'm really not so keen on the random "slice-of-life" stories, I want there to be some kind of point to the story, some mystery or progression or adventure or something like that.

Example: My NaNoWriMo novel (which was originally conceived as a visual novel - it was really odd having to choose "one path" through it to make the "true" path that I write, because I conceived it totally balanced between 3 or 4 paths... but I digress...) My novel stars a 35-year-old homeless guy and a 20-year-old homeless girl. He's not too mature, and his character develops quite a bit over the course of their adventure. But they do have a huge adventure, finding out the secret at the heart of their world.

I've been thinking about how to make a story truly mature without resorting to juvenile elements--explicit sex and/or violence. What I've found is that the possibilities are constrained because you have to be 'practical' or 'realistic'. Sci-fi and fantasy are still considered juvenile and immature in some literature circles.

But while exploring the options for 'realistic' scenarios that explore the human condition, I often hit upon things like vices, politics, religion. Seriously, I don't want to deal with them...there's too much of them in the news already. So all that's left within the 'adult' realm is sex, which nobody ever tires of.

I don't think that's the case. There's issues of identity - who am I, what's my role in the world? There's things like being unhappy with your lot in life and changing your (job/relationship/country/whatever), although that might be a bit too close to your negative stuff you don't want to have to deal with. There's learning to love or forgive. There's romance and love, totally separate from the sex part. I wouldn't say any of those are juvenile or implicit. There's also the classic "coming-of-age" story which can include many of these, as well as sex of course. People seem divided as to whether they view coming-of-age stories as immature or not, but many seem to reckon they can be extremely mature stories for an adult audience.

[mikey]

Hmmm, I find myself in disagreement here...

Who would want an practical adult protagonist who has to bust his or her ass to pay for the rent for the crappy apartment? Such characters are no fun at all.

That's just the anime way of seeing things, going into rent when you're 21. If a movie can have a romantic story that doesn't take place in high school (and they can), so can a VN. If the Japanese companies don't explore this for traditional or mentality reasons, it's a pity, but it doesn't mean it's not possible.

High school is the perfect setting, since the characters are old enough to deal with love, life, and the birds-and-bees, while at the same time they have no responsibilities, and no worries other than oh-no-I'm-going-to-be-a-full-adult.

The result of this however, is that adult producers and writers make the 17-something characters. And it works fine in Horny Bunnies, but come a game that wants to go deeper and the writers have no one else than that 16-year for dealing with serious questions and the more thoughtful material. And honestly, Asuka Langley [or insert your own fave anime teenager], as large fanbase as she has, isn't the right person to reveal the meaning of life.

But while exploring the options for 'realistic' scenarios that explore the human condition, I often hit upon things like vices, politics, religion. Seriously, I don't want to deal with them...there's too much of them in the news already.

Detective stories, light action genre, relationship drama, adult romance, various timeshifts, comedies, horror, thriller, fictive political stories, there are millions of options.

EDIT: oh, Chronoluminaire posted some similar thoughts simultaneously , ignore the duplicates ^_^

[papillon]

Heh, I wasn't thinking you were just talking about the plots focusing around school-age characters... I thought you were complaining that the plots of most hentai games are simply not very deep or complex.

Sadly, if you want to sell something in the US, once you've passed the boundary of being marked Adults Only, putting too much effort into the quality of your game is just going to be a waste, you still can't be sold outside of secret shady pornstops and most of the customers there don't WANT anything deep and thoughtful.

[musical74]

OK mikey VS Blue Lemma, round 1! <ding> Any takers on who wins round 1?

I really think papillon hit the nail quite squarly on the head here...if you put a game marked M for mature, there MIGHT be people who will like a deep and thoughtful game - unlikely, but it's possible. When you get a game marked A/O...people are assuming it's so marked because of sex, and deep thoughts in a sex game are very hard to find.

I'll agree with chronoluminare (great to see you back, BTW!) and mikey on the subject of what's considered *acceptable* for a male lead. ANY character can successfully be the main lead - even if the guy is in the 70s! - but the writing is what's really important. It's entirely possible for a guy in his 40s who's struggling to make ends meet be a great lead - IF the way it's written is done well. It's all about the writing.

Oh, yeah, as gar as main topic here...I think I'd rather implied sex than explicit sex. The former leaves the reader to the power of his imagination, where as the latter doesn't. Just a thought.

[papillon]

Some of the Japanese games cheat a lot with their teenage characters - they make them young, but then try to make them like adults as well, always living on their own and all... it's silly! Proper teenage sex comes with the added difficulties of always worrying about being caught by your parents!