How Bad is a Bad Review?

[Morhighan]

The worst review is not being told anything. So complete silence in response to one's work is unfortunate.
Reviews merely saying that something is bad, while disheartening, can provide fuel for the next project, which hopefully will be better.
When you try something, you at least get the experience of having tried. You get knowledge from that experience.
Failure is not bothering to try at all.
Do something for yourself, not for your audience. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have an audience, so when someone actually does read my work, I'm honored.

[papillon]

If I'm reviewing something on my blog, I am under no obligation to say, "Well, ___ was nice." And why should I? One GOOD thing doesn't magically excuse nine bad.

Of course you're not under an obligation, but it depends what you're trying to achieve with your blog and your reviews (Nothing is ever simple!)

Are you wanting to record your personal experiences with games as accurately as possible? If so, then you should definitely mention the positive along with the negative, but you shouldn't go out of your way to find a positive in something you hate, or overplay those few positives to achieve 'balance' that really isn't there. Mentioning the positive doesn't mean excusing the negative, but if both exist it's not giving a complete picture if you only mention one of them.

Are you wanting to entertain your readers? It's often more fun to write scathing reviews of things you absolutely hate, and there are plenty of sites based around that (Something Awful, etc). In which case you can be as nasty as you want, but don't expect anyone to take your review seriously. (On the other hand, adding a completely sarcastic "positive" aspect is often done for added humor.) Of course you could also have a humorous blog about absolutely loving everything as enthusiastically as possible...

Are you wanting to motivate the author to change to conform to your opinion? If that's the case, then you need to think about what approach is most likely to achieve that result. However, this isn't actually what many reviewers are going for.

[Mink]

You make a good point. What I meant was that I don't think I should go out of my way to say something nice or good (which, yeah, you just stated). It's not like if I liked a certain aspect I wouldn't mention it, but I don't feel like I should be *required* to do so on the off chance someone's feelings may be hurt because I thought it was bad. :/

Actually, the only reason I'd be astoundingly harsh is if A) it just straight up pissed me off or B) it actively offends me. (And B takes a looot to achieve)

[JustAnotherMe]

I think that it's an etiquette. Yeah, sure, a pile of crap with whipped cream and cherry on it is still a pile of crap. But one thing I know; if someone getting just critique, or should I say it's like "It sucks. Everything here is suck. There's nothing good in it. You better get out and boo yourself in your emo corner." critique, then the critic is at fault of breaking someone. Yeah, you don't have any obligation to care about them and their mental break, but then it'll come back to you.
Sure we can give critiques and list them out until 9, but I know if there's 1 good thing at my game, then I'll be motivated to do others and get better. I mean, if I only receive critiques and critiques and nothing good, I'll start to think that I'm no good. At all. Then I'll just slowly go out from making another one. Or for another case, maybe getting mad, or the good one is: I'll show them I can do better! But, how many someone like that exist?
I mean, think about it: imagine you always critique your children. Say to them: there's nothing good about you. Your drawing sucks, your sport sucks, your education sucks, everything you do sucks. Or maybe I put a heart in it so it'll become like this: You're not good at the math? It's because you never study. Or it's because you're doing it wrong. Yeah sure, telling a children what exactly they do wrong will maybe make them better, but if you only tell them all the bad, I mean, ALL the bad, what do you think?
I get influenced by my job, because I'm in social work too. And I tend to be careful at criticizing something at my children because they can get trauma. They have a fragile heart if I must say.

Or oh, you can change the way you critique them: not just point out their fault, but actually giving them a solution. And tell them they can do better. Not just: it sucks.

[Mink]

Oh, well now, I wouldn't say it like THAT. (Well, short of the two conditions of my previous post) That's not even constructive as much as trolling. If I think something sucks, I say WHY I think it sucks, not just "It sucks because...BECAUSE." \

And eh, I'm going to have to disagree with using children as a metaphor. If you're on the Internet like this, I'm going to treat you like an adult, not a child.

Or maybe we should just agree to disagree. (Though I had a friend who wouldn't allow me to do that; he said we had to argue until one of us conceded)

[JustAnotherMe]

Oh, well, I think using children as metaphor is a way to conclude all type of person here on internet; they're the basic of humanity. Because even if an adult, if they're told that they always suck at doing anything, they would think that they're suck. Tell your dad that he can't do anything; he's getting old, oh yes, he tremble a lot, he's weaken, he's suck right now (it's like spewing at his face). Or your friend: tell them they're doing everything wrong, EVERYTHING even for telling them the details (even though it's true), but if you're only telling them the wrong thing... I don't think it'll last long... It's all about consideration... I think... ^^

Oh well, we could always agree to disagree. After all, we're different entity that have different opinion and that makes us unique. Anyway, I know you won't trolling, and your critiques are constructive, and you're honest, and funny, that's why I like you XD

[Mild Curry]

My rule of thumb with critique is, if there is absolutely nothing nice to say about it, then at least say you can tell they put a lot of effort into it. And if they didn't put a lot of effort into it, then it's probably not worth critiquing.

[Wright1000]

That's actually incredibly unhelpful

I didn't say it was helpful, did I?

The worst review is not being told anything. So complete silence in response to one's work is unfortunate.

I'll have to disagree with that.
Here, take a look at one of the VNs which I liked, but didn't receive any feedback.
In fact, it had a deeper meaning too.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =11&t=7816

[Anna]

In fact, it had a deeper meaning too.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =11&t=7816

Care to explain what that is besides 'Look, VNs with minimal production values and information for the reader are ignored more.'? If that's all then I'm hardly impressed.

As for the current topic, I think a bad review is worth more than silence unless it's bashing/flaming the VN with complete nonsense. That's just as bad as silence, if not worse. Of course some may laugh about it, but to most it will hurt right?

[Meg']

It's interesting to read so many different opinions, even though at some points, most of them agree with more or less things.
I almost agree with all of you while I disagree with some things. I read a few posts and picked up a few (or a lot) sentences that interested me :

Soraminako wrote :

I think having it torn apart like garbage is far worse than no feedback. No feedback might still give you some hope that maybe your game is of an obscure or unpopular genre and simply didn't find its niche yet, so it makes you still have hope and try posting it in another place.
But if the only feedback you ever get is someone angrily tearing it apart... then I don't know if I'd ever bother making and posting a second game. ^^; Or if I make it, I might be tempted to share it in a limited way and elsewhere, in hopes of finding a more welcoming public or something.
Especially if it's a first game and there were many difficulties in making it.

I agree with most of the things you said, but I'll ask you that : When you make a game, or generally, when you make/create something, do you make it expecting something in return or do you make it because you want to ?

I'm not really sure that no feedback is better than something useless.

I say "useless" because for me, there is no "bad review". There are only useful and useless reviews. The useful ones are the one that bring something to the creator and help him understand his mistakes by pointing out things that can be improved, and also how the player recieved the game, what his impressions were...

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Hovewer, there are things that have to be said or pointed out even if it's negative. Only commenting the frame won't help the creator to know what he messed up in his work.
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Strum wrote :

If people want their work judged, then they must accept the good, as well as the bad comments. Otherwise, might as well just show it to their mom and dad, have them pat you on the head and say well done.

That's right. Professionnal or not, beginner or not, the best way to improve the things we create is to stay open to criticism. When someone decides to show his work, he is aware (and that'd be lying if he pretended not to) that not everyone is going to like his work.

Pugfarts wrote :

That said, I think it's important to make sure you don't sound too angry about things. Taking a hit on the ego makes it really hard to see the constructive part of a criticism.
Personally, I vastly prefer - "this is a little lacking, you could try something like this, or this to flesh it out if you want." over "I'm going to make a negative assumption about this and then tell you that you're doing it wrong"
But then I'm mostly here to workshop ideas, rather than being told what to do.

When you leave a review, you don't know the personnality of the person behind the screen. You only write what you think. Therefore, everything is only a question of point of view.
That's right there are way to do things, but I think if we had to take into consideration each person personnality when we leave a review, we'll still be here in a thousand years... There are people who appreciate receiving harsh reviews, because they prefer that people tell them the things bluntly instead of running in cercle and not getting to the main point. There are people who prefer that things be said nicely, with exemples, quotations, ect...

Ummm... To sum it all up, there are many way to comment. There are useful and useless reviews. But when reading a review, one must no forget that here's the internet, that written things can be interpreted in many ways.

Oh and I was about to forget the main question

How Bad is a Bad Review?

In case, it's a first game like some of you already wrote, if a review is really harsh depending on the creator's personnality, it can suppress all will to create another game in the future.
Maybe I could say that cruelty kills the creativity. So the worst review that could be, would be a cruel review without any constructive aspects within it.

[applegirl]

I really do thank you all for that insight. I admit, I was vague in my question as I was unsure of how one would even begin to view a bad review (I don't consider a troll response as a review, more of a rant of a very bitter or bored individual). I do hope that people would be civil and considerate in each review, but I've read too many reviews just like the one described by many. Ripping apart the VN or dismissing everything about it. I guess I can't say much about cruelty in terms of review, but I do think unintentional cruelty can occur in a bad review. Especially since this is an art that requires the VN maker to really dedicate ridiculous amounts of time to creating something for the community. There are actually several VNs that I've greatly enjoyed that only had horrific reviews on the internet (one of them had incredibly crude art, which might have explained the poor ratings for what I thought was a brillant story). The VN maker never made another VN after that (which to me is an incredible loss). There is also another VN maker whose bad reviewed seemed to inspire great improvement as she/he published a VN that I thought improved by leaps and bounds. So I wondered if that occurred because of the bad review, or in spite of it. Regardless, it is a difficult issue and I guess we can only hope that greater understanding leads to a more supportive community. After all, the more people who make VNs=more excellent VNs published=win for everyone involved

EDIT: I just realized actually there was one 'review' that made me not buy a commercial VN. So I guess I can't quite ignore their effect either. I suppose for every good done with a bad review, there is also bad done as well. As much as I wanted to support indie game makers, that VN review made me convinced that spending even a dollar on it would be pointless. Sigh.

[lordcloudx]

Since my game got dragged by wright1000 into this thread, I feel the need to reply. (In any case, I'm happy that you liked it, wright1000)

edit: whoops, wrong game

Anyway, there should be some author's notes in that game that better explain my motivations and intentions behind it. Posting it in LSF was an afterthought and was actually done over a year from its initial release. I'm pretty happy with the small amount of mostly positive response that I got from people who actually read the game (in places other than LSF).

Additional information Scratch that. The game was first made available for people who also visit The Teacup where the game was originally released for a much smaller demographic http://teacup.lunaen.com/index.php?topic=41.0

Furthermore, the game also exists outside of LSF through CNET download.com and mirrored at several other download locations.

Info on the kinetic novel can also be found here:
http://rd2k2-games.blogspot.com/2011/08/unpolished.html

[Wright1000]

Let me tell you all a short story.
Once upon a time there was an astrologer who used to serve an Indian king. One day, the king asked him to read his palm. Hindu astrologers can't tell lies. The astrologer did read his palm and replied, "I've got bad news. All your relatives are going to die soon. After that, you are going to die as well." The king was so angry that he threw the astrologer into prison.
The king hired another astrologer to read his palm. This one replied, "Good news, your majesty. Out of all your family members, you are going to live the longest." The king rewarded this astrologer.
Now, there is an important lesson you can learn from this story. Both of them said the same thing but one was punished while one was rewarded. So, always choose your words carefully. Words can hurt people really badly.

[applegirl]

I do agree words can hurt badly, but didn't the king ask for the truth? I mean, I do think bad reviews have some meaning. They think the person can change or rather improve the situation. What if the deaths were preventable? I mean, some people can even take constructive criticism badly. It is a sensitive issue because this medium requires people to be vulnerable. "Here's my work that took all the dedication and skill I have. Let me know what you think after playing it for a fraction of the time I spent on it."

I dunno, I remember on VN maker talking about how she heard a lot of criticism for one of her VNs that she spent many years on. She addressed a lot of the issues and her second VN became a much, much bigger success (so much that a lot of people thought it was her first published work!) I like to think bad reviews, while they do suck, show that they believe the person can at least take it. Opinions aren't fact, not everyone will like a VN. Even if it is amazing (which I'm often stunned to find haters for some of the best VNs out there).

[OtomeWeekend]

A maker's job doesn't end with completing the game...it's also his/her job to receive thy feedbacks be they offensive because that's what any game maker or any kinds of maker should expect when they complete their VN/game/product. And so that the next time they made a new one, they can review it for the better and improve it for the best.

Though if the feedback was too offensive, i really think that's a bit off. Just because no one commented on your game doesn't meant that no one played it and just because you receive a bad comment doesn't mean your work is not good because there are many rooms for improvements and no human being is perfect.

That's my opinion, pretty much same as everyone but still elaborated it ^^;

EDIT: by the way, the title was kinda misleading.... How bad is a bad review... i was about to answer depends on how bad the reviewer reviews ^^;