How Bad is a Bad Review?

[Gear]

Now, there is an important lesson you can learn from this story.

I can't help but disagree. Sounds more like the moral of the story is to avoid being in an advisory position to a monarch with a bad temper and childish inability to handle bad news.

[Mink]

Or that no one ever really wants to hear the truth.

[JustAnotherMe]

But I kind of agree with Wright. And I know I saw a book that filled with things like 'how to speak politely and make the other agree with you' or I can say: how to speak smarter and make things you suggest acceptable.
Rather than saying: You're dumb; you have no brain; you're idiot; you better go die in your stupidity
It's better to coat it with: You can be smarter.

I know I have to speak smartly to my boss. If it's a king then... I'll speak smarter. (Better speak smarter or my head will be on the plate) XP

It's better to make your words... acceptable. Unless you're really mad at something or you want to start a war. (or... well, who knows? )

[lordcloudx]

Of course, some people may also view this as sugarcoating. There is a fine line between being polite and being patronizing just like there's only a slight difference between being brutally honest and being honestly brutally annoying. In any case, whether you're the former or the latter, I think it's best to examine if you're doing it for the honesty or for the sadistic pleasure you derive from the brutality C:

[JustAnotherMe]

Ah, I know it can be patronizing too XD But if we being brutally honest with politeness, it will be more acceptable rather than... you know. It's kind of like this: (his art sucks) your art could use some more practice, (his story sucks) and I think you need to think carefully on plotting your story, (his sense of music sucks) you can grab someone to choose music to support every events, (his grammar sucks) and if you're not a native speaker, you can always ask for free proofreader to help you. But I know you can do better next time. Think of this as a step for greater achievement. You can practice and everyone in this forum will gladly help you. You can search for tutorials with google. Your effort will be paid someday!! Good luck for youuu!!!

That's... polite I think. Give some encouragement too, not just pointing out the flaws (especially if you write the flaws in a meanie way like 'you have no plots; have you even read it first before encode this? And your pics can't be called art, it lacks dimension, your sprite even can't be called a human; you better draw stick figure rather than trying so hard to draw like the others. And are you deaf? I know many toddlers who have better sense of music. And have you ever thought of getting help to fix your horrible engrriisshh? I can't even understand what you're talking about. All in all, this thing is ROTTEN to the bone' kind of opinion)

You know what I'm talking about, yeah? ^w^

[Mink]

Okay, I'll admit that I tend to be guilty of 'condescension masquerading as politeness'. >x> (Only if I've been ticked off, though; I don't do it just for the sake of doing it)

And really, some people will flip out no matter how polite you put your critique, and nothing short of, "It was great!" will please them. Seriously, I've seen this happen. To one person's credit, they realized their mistake, but it was kind of too late by then. :/

There's a webcomic I want to review, but it would take everything within me not to say, "Why didn't they just drop the so-called 'plot' and just made straight-up pron? Because it would have been better for it." Though is it okay if I balance it out with one of the few things I *did* like about it?

[JustAnotherMe]

@Mink: nahh, I'll go with 'bad' critiques too if something really, super duper annoy the hell out of me. I can't help it XDD

And those people, I think they're worth of being alone. Rather than being mad and lose my temper and everything's broken, I'll just leave them be in their own world. At least I've tried to politely giving them opinion on their so-called "the best" (What I think as the best is when you try to listen and practice and improve. Not just: I've given 10 years to finish this story so no one should ever critique it, you all should just admire me. yeah sure, the 10 years itself is admire-able. But a bad thing is a bad thing.)

I think a review must be completed with the bad and good aspect. Sure you can always say it like: I think it's better to drop the plot, because the straight-up pron (I don't know the meaning??) is already good as it is. But... yeah, you know... nothing's simple. It's just as you stated @_@

[Auro-Cyanide]

I agree with Mink and Gear, what happens if the King could have saved himself and his family if only he had listened to the truth instead of the twisted truth? D:

I don't think stuff should be sugar coated or turned in a way that stops you from saying what you want to say, because then you are kind of failing at communicating. At the same time I agree with JAM that reviews should not include personal insults. The work is not the author. This goes for both sides of the fence. People who do reviews should not comment on work as if it is a total representation of a person, cause it isn't. While something might be pretty bad, a person actually has the potential to get better. The two things are very much seperate. And when people say your stuff is bad, they are not saying you yourself are bad. You must always remember that what you produce is only a small reflection of what you can do. If people looked at my art and thought that was all I could ever do, I would be dissappoint >:( One of the common lessons caught in a lot of art schools is to create a piece of art you are proud of... and then tear it up. It allows you to be more free, to view things objectively and to understand how to get better so you can be even more proud It's a growth process that fulfills your spiritually, right up there on your pyramid of needs

Another reason I think a bad review is better than no review is because I doubt anyone here is making a game so no-one can play it. A game is meant to be played. If someone gives you a review, even a bad review, at least you know that someone not only played it, but they thought about it, which is a very precious thing.

[papillon]

A game is meant to be played. If someone gives you a review, even a bad review, at least you know that someone not only played it, but they thought about it, which is a very precious thing.

On the internet, many people review games they clearly haven't played!

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Okay, I'll admit that I tend to be guilty of 'condescension masquerading as politeness'.

And that is where you run into trouble, especially if your target or the creator of what you review is smart enough to realize what you are saying isn't a compliment. Then you just come up looking condescending, patronizing, cowardly, or sycophantic. Or all of those things. Which is much worse that just being honest and telling it like it is.

I got used to the "telling it like it is" in the military, and I LOVED it. Yes, you have to grow a little thicker skin, but there is no confusion, no "pleasant lies". Things get done much faster and better when you aren't forced to wade through the BS to get to the kernels of truth, and instead just have someone throw the kernels of truth at your face. It stings at first, but you get used to it, and at least that way, nothing smells.

And Wright1000, I'm going to have to agree with everyone else. To paraphrase the Princess Bride:

"You keep telling these stories. I do not think they mean what you think they mean."

[Auro-Cyanide]

A game is meant to be played. If someone gives you a review, even a bad review, at least you know that someone not only played it, but they thought about it, which is a very precious thing.

On the internet, many people review games they clearly haven't played!

But that's not really a review, that's an asumption masqurading as a review It would be like re-doing something you haven't done in the first place. But I get what you mean, people can be jerks in doing that, and some people will actually take it to be a review, which sucks. I would hope people would read between the lines, but yeah, it can suck.

[lordcloudx]

On the other hand, as already discussed in a recent thread, getting a bad review doesn't necessarily mean that the game is bad -- just that a particular reviewer thinks it's bad. No matter how objective you try to be in a review, it will always be subjective. Furthermore, there's really nothing wrong with this. Otherwise, we might as well pass all VNs through a machine checker that automatically makes unbiased judgments based on numerical ratings and quantitatively measurable standards. A high volume of negative reviews might mean that the game fails to meet the conforming standards of a high volume of reviewers. There's no telling just how universally applicable these reviews may actually be without running actual statistical research to determine if the reviewers are representative of the general population that they respectively belong to. Not an argument; food for thought. On the internet, the words of a few vocal minority can appear to be the consensus of an overwhelming majority as long as everyone else stays neutral/quiet.

Long story short? Your review is not conclusive of the universal value of a VN -- because there is none.

[Auro-Cyanide]

On the other hand, as already discussed in a recent thread, getting a bad review doesn't necessarily mean that the game is bad -- just that a particular reviewer thinks it's bad. No matter how objective you try to be in a review, it will always be subjective. Furthermore, there's really nothing wrong with this. Otherwise, we might as well pass all VNs through a machine checker that automatically makes unbiased judgments based on numerical ratings and quantitatively measurable standards. A high volume of negative reviews might mean that the game fails to meet the conforming standards of a high volume of reviewers. There's no telling just how universally applicable these reviews may actually be without running actual statistical research to determine if the reviewers are representative of the general population that they respectively belong to. Not an argument; food for thought. On the internet, the words of a few vocal minority can appear to be the consensus of an overwhelming majority as long as everyone else stays neutral/quiet.

Long story short? Your review is not conclusive of the universal value of a VN -- because there is none.

Agreed! Everything should be taken with grains of salt (or busket loads depending on the person). It is up to the creator to judge what they will and will not believe, though it is good to consider why someone may hold the opinion they do.

[Mink]

@JAM: I meant 'porn' actually. >x> And I'm serious: if it was just that, I would actually think MORE of it. Bizarre, I know.

@LateWhiteRabbit: Well, that actually goes back to the two conditions I listened earlier. It pissed me off (which takes a lot), or it actively offends me (which takes even more). Otherwise, it's just my normal 'this is bad because A, B, C..."

For example: I've become to the point with Gears of War that I'm just offended, and no, with that I refuse to be nice (especially if it's true the comics are in-continuity, the thought of which makes me inherently enraged). And certain DC New 52 comics. And the Marvel Civil War.

...Why do I even read comics?

[JustAnotherMe]

@Auro: Hehe, I don't mean to sugar-coat it to be lies^^. I say what I mean. I won't praise them for things they don't deserve. It's just that it's better in society to speak more acceptable. (I can't just say to my boss' face: your design suck, sir. (I'm not telling him that he's suck) or... well.. to the other adult. I just need to be more polite. Or to the children. Else they'd close their world from me) And, below:

@LateWhite: I think that it's good too XD. But it doesn't mean that choosing our words will make our true opinion biased or can't reach the target of our opinion. If you want to tell them what's wrong with their game in every tiny little bit parts you can think of, that's better I think. Though choosing words so it'd not be like as we are hating them and their game, as it is not like we like their game, is better.
And, you can't expect everyone to be like you who likes it just the way it is (or should I say, in a harsh way? Because in a nice way it'd be just like the way it is too.) Not everyone is in the army, or should I say, many.
But I believe one or two person telling someone in a harsh way is necessary too sometimes, depends on the person. I know some of my children that needs to get scolding every now and then because of their personality. But if they deserve to be praised, even for just a tiny little bit, I'll praise them. Not lying to them.
And I think choosing our words won't make us a coward. It's consideration. I'll be a coward if I avoid giving review because I don't want to start a war or be hated. ^^ Hope you get what I mean.

@Mink: oh, wow... I... can't say anything... gut luck... @_@