Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

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Rin
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Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#1 Post by Rin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:19 pm

Hey, I'm planning stuffs for my VN endings. My first thought comes for good and bittersweet endings. However, according to my teammate, should create bad endings for each routes in which the target will fall for another one and rejects the MC. I played some VN with -almost- similar ending and felt kinda frustrating, went through everything just to watch my bishies hand in hand with another girl ;-; I personally against it, but perhaps just me? I mean, my friend said "life is not a cake, it’s a almond, sometimes it is quite bad tasting". I agree, that's right without any doubt, also admit it might spice things up but still... >_>

Maybe I'm just being stubborn and a little bit selfish (because I'm up to only happy + bittersweet endings; harem works too). When I play VN I always have a feeling that I'm living there that's why I took it quite serious as well as had "real" feeling with things. Silly me? >_>

I'd be grateful if you can give me some suggestion about the ending problem (the love interest doesn't fall for MC and goes for another girl/guy)
I honestly don't want any argument with friends ;-; But seems like the fire is about to start >_> *Sigh*

Thank you,

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#2 Post by papillon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:42 pm

You may be interested in this topic:

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=13420

The main question is, are you having bad endings or are you having characters with *only* bad endings? Few people will mind if it's possible to get a bad outcome (and there are some theories where a good outcome feels pointless unless it was possible to fail) but many people will be upset if you go through a whole path that has no possibility of good outcome.

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#3 Post by Fawn » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:43 pm

There's no challenge if there's no way to get a bad end. A good game will make people think about their actions; it's not fun if you can't lose. :) (however like Papillion said, it can be frustrating if you over do it.)

The most important things are to make sure your bad endings are relevant to the story and also so that it's not too easy to figure out what's a good choice and a bad choice. For example, a bad example would be these two choices: "Be a jerk to him" (Bad ending choice) "Be nice to him" (good ending choice)

A better set of choices would be something related to the character(s), such as if you can give a gift to a character. The player will have to think about what they know about the character before choosing a gift. Let's say early on in the story the character "Bishie-kun" mentions he likes strawberry cake, but he hates pie. The choices might be "Make Bishie-kun a chocolate cake", "Make Bishie-kun a strawberry cake", or "Make Bishie-kun a pie". Chocolate cake would be a neutral choice, strawberry cake would be the best choice and pie would be the worst choice. That's a very simple example, but, it should make the game more challenging if you mix up the choices like that. :D

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#4 Post by Hseo » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:45 pm

1-If my memory is right, in muv-luv if you have low point with Tamase Miki in her route she will refuse your help which will lead to normal ending.
(Where you end up without anyone.)

2- Netorare = are games where someone steals the heroine away from the protagonist ( bad ending )
( I don't like type 2 but there some people who like it// some game only have type 2 ending.... )

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#5 Post by ShadowBerry » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:54 pm

I am really against those endings too xD
I would never play a game to see as bad ending that the boy of my heart kissing another girl - I wouldn't like it in real life either >_>
When I would play that game and see such an ending, I would complain to the maker, thats for sure!

And even if you friend said "life isnt a cake" but still...this is a GAME for GIRLS...and a lot of girls prefer good / bittersweet endings.
I would even prefer an ending where the love of your life dies and in the end you need to move on, but always keep him in your heart somewhere (played such games already)...even that is more bearable (to me xD)

But also, I don't like veeery cheesy love -living-happy-ever-after- endings.

In the end it's up to you, what you take for bad endings but personally I would hate seeing 'my' boy falling for another girl.
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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#6 Post by Rin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:21 pm

@papillon: Thank you for the helpful link!
And I have multiple endings. I'm totally love bittersweet ending but the said bad ending is not what I'm up to. I think I'm just too sensitive and feel like frustrating seeing my bishies end up with another girl after everything I went through T_T
But indeed, I can see it's pretty much personal taste.

@Fawn: It's seriously a good advice ^3^ Thank a ton Fawn xDD
But yea as mentioned I have bittersweet endings too, meaning it's not an absolute blissful path. I just wonder if you guys prefer that kind of bad ending (be rejected at the end).

@Hseo: Yes again personal taste ^^ I myself don't like depressing but I shouldn't just put my ego over everything if I'm that VN developer. (In case I can I'll grab all my bishies and escape xDDDD)

@ShadowBerry: D:
Thank you so muchly for the suggestion :3 :3 I can see your point :-p
Yea *sob I'll find a corner and crying alone there when my bishies dump the MC T^T

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#7 Post by PyTom » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:08 pm

I think it's important that either:

1) The "bad ending" is a really interesting ending in its own right.

- or -

2) The "bad ending" is reached quickly.

- or -

3) You have to go out of you way to get a bad ending.

There's nothing more annoying than investing precious hours in a story, and then having to do it again (and again!) because you made a mistake in the first act. Even skipping isn't instantaneous - so you don't want to make the user do more of it than necessary.

It also depends on how game-like your game is. The more puzzle-like a game is, the more appropriate bad endings are.
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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#8 Post by Rin » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:58 am

Thank you PyTom. It's a valuable advice.

And I think I'm up to "3)", like Fawn stated (*):
A better set of choices would be something related to the character(s), such as if you can give a gift to a character. The player will have to think about what they know about the character before choosing a gift. Let's say early on in the story the character "Bishie-kun" mentions he likes strawberry cake, but he hates pie. The choices might be "Make Bishie-kun a chocolate cake", "Make Bishie-kun a strawberry cake", or "Make Bishie-kun a pie". Chocolate cake would be a neutral choice, strawberry cake would be the best choice and pie would be the worst choice. That's a very simple example, but, it should make the game more challenging if you mix up the choices like that. :D
I think it's more interesting this way (also challenging). Still, making mistake can lead to the unwilling ending, which is pretty annoying as you said. Goes through a long long way and ends up watching my guy lives happily with another girl >_>

(**)In some games that I played, the ending is decided by only the last choice. Like, "will you marry me?" ; if "yes" >>> good ending ; if "I have to go my own way" >>> bad. All the previous choices just gives different set of convo. Therefore, we just need to save before picking the last choice and go through a short event to exploring all the endings.
Does it work, if you guys can have a choice between the (*) and (**)?

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#9 Post by ShadowBerry » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:26 am

I prefer
(*)

because when only the last choice counts its pretty pretty easy and boring in my opinion.
I want to figure out, what I need to do, to win the heart of my love its more realistic and amusing.

and if you get a bad ending you have two choices:
do it again!
or give up / look for a walkthrough

but when you really like a game you do it as ofen as you have to, to get the perfect ending ;)
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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#10 Post by Jo'ogn » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:57 am

I am a big fan of games that offer real choices with consequences. Many big video games claim they have that feature, even though they don't.

Esp. in romantic relationships I like a sense of 'realism'. Simply because you give a love interest a couple of gifts and meet them a couple of times, does not necessarily create a love relationship in reality, if personalities are not compatable.

A simple 'mistake' doesn't break friendship either. However an accumulation of 'negative behaviour' should lead to an end that have the love interest rejecting the player - for a reason! Neither acceptance nor rejection should feel unreasonable.

Maybe you give the player even a chance to make up, or apologise? Sth like an 'extended end'. It's nice, if a game aparently ended, but is not entirely finished, yet. To soften the "OMG it's game over now".

Esp. dating games end when the the best part only starts, the actual relationship o_0
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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#11 Post by Rin » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:12 am

@ShadowBerry: Thanks <3 Yea of course we have to reroll in order to get better ending if we got the bad one : ( But as PyTom said, spending hours for the story again and again gives frustration. Perhaps not the first time, but later you'll be like *rage - quit*, not to mention each guy in my game has like ~2 or 3 endings, which means ~8-12 times rerolling to get all the possible endings x_X

@Jo'ogn: Thank a ton! I see your point. Sounds like I still have a lot of work to do xDD But I'll try :p Thank again! It's really helpful

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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#12 Post by ShadowBerry » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:16 am

I understand you Rin, and no matter what you do I look forward to it.
But please dont make the ending 'to easy to get'

If you need help with writing I could help (hopefully xD)
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Re: Be rejected by the love interest (Ending)?

#13 Post by LeandroP » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:12 am

There are many ways to have a bad ending in a love story. You can make it about death, distance, a bad fight or anything that pops your mind. You just have to give it an extensive writing because bad endings can't be short, that would make it look poor.
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