I've been following the thread but since I've been sick, I wanted to wait before replying. I seem to have a mind clear enough now.
yummy wrote:Drools~ hehe Punishment~~
Depends if Monele wants some extra scenes XD
Haha
... But no, really
Jens wrote:I'd more than love to see it become a group project with quests, codes, artwork and such being freely submittable.
Even though I'd be more than happy to make a simple game, I do realize the power of modding and since it shouldn't be too hard, I want Magical Boutique to be moddable. Yet, I don't know about it being a "group project". More on this later.
Jens wrote:Anyway preventing the storyline from diluting should be fairly simple considering not all magic is safe and no world is ever peaceful.
You could end up as a anything from a blackmarket or a government owned supplier for armaments to front for espionage or who knows.
Monopolise the world via the übermenschly power of capitalism.
Sounds like parts of things I've planned. But not *exactly*.
Jens wrote:Man I wanna cowrite this thing ;_;
Well, really, that's the whole purpose of moddability. You don't have to cowrite, you'll just write your own mod for it
.
dizzcity wrote:Events and Quests: Had to read through it three times, but I think I finally understand your quest and event model, monele. Looks good. I think it's workable, and scalable as well. It's basically a series of events happening at specific times, triggered by specific variables, and which return a value of True/False that can be used as triggers or conditions for the next event. Not very dynamic, but it doesn't have to be, since this should be a game first, and a storytelling engine second. I can work with that.
dizzcity, what I presented is only an example, of course. It's not all fleshed out yet and you've already given new ideas such as gathering events (I only planned to have events independant of everything else, happening always at a precise moment of a turn).
It means that if there is something missing, there is probably a chance that I'll add it to the engine.
As of *now*, all characters are moddable (from the hero to any worker, all their stats and pictures), all ingredients are moddable (picture, icon, stats), all locations are moddable (map picture, location names and stats). Same thing for potions and recipes. The only thing that isn't directly moddable is the gameplay... the rules, per se.
dizzcity wrote:Reward/Punishment: The simplest (and most feasible) option, in my opinion, is to turn them into random events, with varied effects on character relationships. There are only two types of events - "Character does well" or "Character screws up". Within each event, there are two choices - either "Do something" (i.e. reward/punish) or "Do nothing". Depending on your choice, different variables will change. This can be scripted under events.
Example: A "Character Does Well" Event (-snip example-)
Sounds nice. As I said, I'll just have to add gathering events (or actually, task events) and this should be possible. All dialogues and menus and anything will be in the event script... which means you can do anything Ren'Py allows you to.
dizzcity wrote:Capacity: Well, a simple way of differentiating characters is just to give each of them a fixed range of quantities they can bring. eg. Framboise can bring in 1-20 items, Mozran can bring in 1-50 items, Pimimi can bring in 1-10 items. But keep those values fixed, and non-changeable. (i.e. no need for "character improvement" along those lines). You want more of something, send Mozran instead of Pimimi.
I understand your point but I'm really scared that, through evolution, one of your character *would* be able to gather hundreds of one common ingredient... And yet, you couldn't get this because the character hasn't enough capacity. At first it isn't a problem, as you won't even reach that limit... but later, it could become frustrating. And even if Mozran can gather hundreds of ingredients and bring them back, he probably won't be able to gather the same things as Framboise (some gatherers are better at plants, other at minerals, others at animals, etc...).
I'm not saying there *will* be vehicles or bigger bags, but...
Jens wrote:The player just gets more of a feeling that their involved since the choises they make have greater weight than just their own future. Like moral issues towards selling weapons or powerful magic items or using them yourself (customer charcters? maybe you refuse to support a certain group.The conflicting interests progress the story and character relationships and so forth)
Very very strangely, I notice I'm not really going towards an epic mindset with this game (all my other projects are of epic proportions...). I actually like the idea of a more quiet life. Think of Tokimeki Memorial, The Sims... I also want to focus on relationships (not just love, but friendship and rivalry too). That's another of my has-to-be-in-a-game things ^.^;.
Yet... it doesn't mean there won't be moral issues. I actually want this to be part of some of the story paths. I think I explained it once already : the game will have multiple linear paths when it comes to the story. When conditions are met, the first event will be triggered. Unless it's a flavor event, you'll get a quest and will need to succeed. You fail ? Then this story path is probably closed forever (probably a good incentive to succeed ^^). If you do succeed, you get to the next mission and so on. Reading the squirrel example, as silly as it is, is a good way to understand this
.
But since you seem to like darkest aspects of the story, I can tell you that one of the planned paths has to do with poisons. And it's up to the player to accept these missions or not. If you do and go on and on, chances are that you will end up on the dark side.
You might see a parallel with Princess Maker 2 where your daughter can take the paths of adventurer, scholar, hostess, princess... and many more. There's just not much story behind them. I want a bit more story, hence something more linear and in multiple steps.
Jens wrote:The people you decide to hire could also change the outcome or have separate ending paths.
(because no one who ends up working at magic shop is
what you would call normal /plot device).
If magic is common in this world (and it is, kinda), it could be just as natural as working at McDonals (if that's... natural, you tell me). Anyway, yes, people from your team could also decide on what happens. For now, I don't really plan to have removeable workers (ones that would quit or just never be hired) because it makes story writing really difficult (believe me, I've tried @_@). But still, I want them to be there and be important. I hope to be able to give a story path to a lot of them, just as I want to give one to the restaurant owner and other characters that would usually just be mere secondary characters.
It's still a lot of work for one man, so that's where *you* guys can butt in and add to the product.
I'm reminded of Morrowind and its modding community, suddenly turning regular shop keepers into full quest givers. You just add events, make a story path out of them, and there you go.
Jens wrote:I've played the demo and it seems to be going in a different direction completly. Aiming for a feeling of a calm daily life scenario without much space for power games(and since I activly worship utawarerumono thats a problem).
It's true that Magical Boutique is going towards the fairy-tale way. At least in its overall mood. As I said above, though, there might be dark paths. Lots of possibilities there, except that the main gameplay will still be about gathering and brewing.
I did like what I saw from the Utamono anime, even if it was a bit too "real violence" for me (eh...), and I think I would enjoy the game a lot (tactical RPG, right?). But you're really asking the author of Sesame Street to turn it into Dragon Ball... or something like that
.
While there *will* be wars in the story... while there might be violence... I don't plan to make it the main aspect of the game. MagBou should be a game where you can play for one year (in-game) and end up leaving the shop to Framboise's care to marry Eladorya, the cute florist...... or play for 3 years and end up deciding of the fate of two countries with your magic. I sense that would play for the last part... but others here will certainly play for the first one ^.^
Again, if something's missing, you might mod it in
dizzcity wrote:Hmm... as far as I can tell, this can technically be done with the event/quest structure that monele has proposed, although it would require quite a lot of work in writing and careful scripting. After all, if monele's going to release it as a mod-able game, then people could create different versions of the plot and the end-user can choose which things to integrate and which to leave out. (Heck, I'm pretty sure I can even work in a mecha scenario if I really had the desire to do it - which I don't. Razz)
Absolutely. The fact that the story is separated from the gameplay (as opposed to a regular VN) gives great freedom. At least I hope so ^^. You're also right about the daunting task of making such stories. That's what I'd rather concentrate on the ones I have at heart, and let others add to it with other genres. Let me remind you all that the game is far from finished... and it's still a long way ^^;... So the most important for me is motivation. Your interest for this is very thrilling and I sense a lot of potential for the story aspect, so... so far so good
.
I'm not sure one could have "tickable" plots (even though assembling events in story paths could allow for this) but you could definitely *add* to the original game, or completely rewrite it.
You're joking about mechas but I think it's actually feasible
. Ingredients become materials (iron, energies, fuel, alloys), recipes become blueprints, potions become mechs, workers... well... are just mechanics/engineers now. Change the backgrounds, the characters... There, a complete change of mood, but still the same engine.
dizzcity wrote:If, let's say, a whole lot of people contribute story events and plotlines to this, we may end up with something like a "Choose Your Own Plot" game, where the user can pick entire mod files such as "Workplace Romance", "Political Struggle", "The Wonders of Nature", "Children's Fairytale" and more to create their own unique story experience. (Sort of like the Neverwinter Nights mod community, I guess)
NWN being another big inspiration for this ^^. While, again, I see all mods as additive more than exclusive (though it might require a bit more work on my side), this is a good example. Let the player play the game, make his choices, and end up on a path that should fit his mood.
It might seem strange, but I want my parents to be able to play this thing and enjoy it. They already like the demo version and I know it's because it's a lot more friendly than what I usually show them (mechas, sci-fi, medieval wars ?...). When I talked about the possibility of having the dark poison path, I felt the thrill disappear. That's just not their thing. So yea, even if I don't want this to become an awful mess of plots, I do want a result that lets you take rather different paths. Ones that are close to people, others that could be epic.
musical74 wrote:DizzCity bringing up the mods and the *choose your own plot* brings an interesting idea: how well would this work? Granted, we are getting ahead of ourselves, but if monele likes the idea of it...well? What do you think, monele? What's the likelyhood of having mods for this?
Obviously, I'm all for it ^.^
Somehow, the idea of a mecha scenario in here just seems WRONG...
Aww :3
before you give Pimimi a little cart which allows her to add 50 to her total. I'll disagree with Dizzy in that it would be good for at least Pimimi and Framboise to get stuff to allow for more carrying capacity, in case you get a massive demand for weak heal AND weak cure AND Bull's Strength...so you would need the girls to power up to allow for the increased demand.
My point, really ^^. And those who don't like this can always remove vehicles from the shops in their mods
Jens wrote:The player sholdn't have to choose between plots since that makes them all look pretty superficial (you're only suffering because I told you to Evil or Very Mad ).Making different games altogether would be more sensible then.
What they should be able to do is choose what they want to do in the game. Do they keep brewing medicine and employing cute girls or
start questing for powerful artifacts. This offers a stimul to keep playing if not for the gratification of wealth and riches then for the prospect of having to sell you're staff to slavers if you fail and took a big loan.
You really want this to be dramatic, uh?
But you're right, I'd also like the player to implicitely choose his plot inside the game. Not at the beginning. One could change his mind, or suddenly discover that, hey... the florist is actually more interesting than these darn political issues!
Oh and, yes, there will be artifacts. These will be created through rituals. I think I talked about this.
and the players own goals for success(starting a grocery store franchise, becoming the most famouse enchanted talores boutique in the realm,turning the store into a weapons arsenal,become a collector of Master gems or rule all countries by pulling strings).
Really the kind of various endings I'd like to provide. The way you play will determine the opportunities you get... hence the endings.
I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a game that focuses on gathering berrys and flirting with staff (I really liked the beginning of utawarerumono the most). I'm saying it would be pretty monotone before long and the average player would be asking themselves: " what the hell am I playing this for?"
(unless you include H-scenes...please don't)
Well, in that regard, playing the demo isn't the best to get a feeling for the final product. There is almost no story. I have barely started planning them after all. Even characters are only vague ideas (Marzon, Pimimi and so on are all invented on the fly for the examples... even though I think I'll keep a few of them).
Monotony will only be there if the game only offers gameplay. That gameplay *is* monotonous. It's turn after turn. 3 in game months are usually enough to bore me to death. That's when the story comes in and gives purpose to that whole thing. Either you want to get closer to the highest figures of the kingdom by becoming famous, or you want to help people, or you only have eyes for one of your gatherers... who knows? The point is that, instead of having a main plot at once, I think it would be interesting for it to appear through the quests. The player should naturally pick paths that seem interesting to him.
Oh, and no, no H-scenes
(unless it's modded in ^^; )
(if you throw in a few nice girls and beating stuff up).
Nice girls, check... Beating stuff up... uhh, unless you count the bodyguards fighting thieves and/or monsters... no
. I don't plan to have any RPG-like fights in this, sorry.
because no matter how skilled you are you can't lift twice you're own weight.
Antania, duchess of the Formicans, will have to prove your wrong ^.^
(Stats stuff)
Mm, still a bit too sick to absorb this ^^;... This is not final but I'd rather keep things simple. I understand the realism behind general stats influencing multiple activities but it adds another layer of maths which would make balancing difficult (at least for me XD). Most characters will probably only have 2 or 3 talents anyway.
About groups : so far, the only planned thing is to add a bodyguard to a gatherer/scholar/merchant. Just as you would give a sword to your RPG character. I'll see wether a lone gatherer can at least *try* to defend himself, or has to be guarded to have a chance. If included, the other thing part of a group would be the vehicle.
Phew... posts are getting longer and longer @_@...