TwinTurtleGames needs an artist!

[Funnyguts]

TwinTurtle Games is looking for an artist, preferably one who likes coloring! Bonus points if you like to draw magical girls too.

What am I getting myself into?
TTG has two major projects in the works right now, that being That’s the Way the Cookie Crumbles and Puella Magi Ibuki Magica. The first is a dating and baking simulator hybrid, while the second is a RPG VN hybrid. There are also a few smaller game concepts we’re playing around with, but those two take our main priority.

Will I have a deadline?
Yes, but they aren’t too strict. Generally we’re quite flexible and we’ll understand if there are things locking up your schedule sometimes.

Will I get paid?
Possibly! TTG is noncommercial at the moment, but we accept donations from fans and that’s how we pay ourselves. Depending on how many donations we get, that’ll be your paycheck. Generally you should work with the spirit of doing things for free though.

What are you looking for?
We’ve had cel-shading styles in the past, but if you have something else you think matches the mood of the game(s) then feel free to experiment!

Anything else you want me to know?
Our two main projects are big, and we really want people who are going to be here for the long run. We work as a team and everyone’s input is important, and we also value new ideas. If you join us, you’ll have free reign with a lot of things like character designs and such.

[If you want to see our previous work, check out our TWCC demo!]

[Widget]

we accept donations from fans and that’s how we pay ourselves. Depending on how many donations we get, that’ll be your paycheck.

What's the average donation you get in total? How do you divide it among your group?

Generally you should work with the spirit of doing things for free though.

No offense, encouraging people to work for free is definitely a no-no, whatever your reason is.

---

I may help, depends on your "donations".

[Reikun]

Hi Widget, I'm the line/BG artist for TWCC.

What's the average donation you get in total? How do you divide it among your group?

Not something we can disclose publicly, but the donations we do get go towards website/hosting costs first and then living expenses for our members. We're not all living it up in comfyland...

Generally you should work with the spirit of doing things for free though.

No offense, encouraging people to work for free is definitely a no-no, whatever your reason is.

As Funnyguts said, we're making noncommercial games right now. That statement is mainly there because there is no absolute guarantee that any of us will get financial benefit from our games (read: we're all doing it for free right now >__>). We're not really looking for transient teammates that are only after money. And no offense taken.

I may help, depends on your "donations".

Well, thanks for your "interest" I guess.

[Widget]

we're making noncommercial games right now.
(read: we're all doing it for free right now >__>)

That's one common misconception about a collaboration.
Commercial or non-commercial, if you guys gonna hire an artist, they should have a compensation. It doesn't mean you guys are doing it for free means the artist you'll hire will also work for free.

the donations we do get go towards website/hosting costs first and then living expenses for our members. We're not all living it up in comfyland...

"Members", that sounds like it's restricted to your group only and it's like you're saying that the artist you guys will be hiring is not part of your original team thus, will not receive any payment. Are hired part/full-time artists not treated as "members"?

Any artist that will apply will use the money for their living expenses too don't you think? That's why they're looking for a job. If this gig isn't sure about paying their workers, then it's not worth it. We're not living it up in comfyland either, we need to work so we can eat.

*Read: We're looking for a work, not begging for money.

We're not really looking for transient teammates that are only after money.

Read [*]. Don't worry, you can still get an artist. Hobbyists and temporary ones. Those that disappears after working for a bit since they're not obligated to work on your project. If you ever get a free artist that will stick to the end while spending their time and resources for free, that's a true martyr.

Will I get paid?
Possibly!

Make it sure.

[PyTom]

If you ever get a free artist that will stick to the end while spending their time and resources for free, that's a true martyr.

Because nobody in the community should be expected to do anything for free.

I kind of read this as a free project recruiting an artist who's willing to work for free, with donations split between the team members after server rent and other fees are paid. And that's something that should be encouraged, as long as everyone knows what they're getting into.

There are a lot of free games made by the community - both LSF, and the greater English-Language Original VN community. The best free games are as good as, or better, than the best commercial games. (The latter are released more frequently.) And while we want to be sure that nobody is being exploited - a totally mercenary attitude is something we want to discourage.

(I think that people who make money off of this have a duty to give something back - but what that means is up to the person.)

[Widget]

They're paid to do their work alright.

Free games or commercial, hiring a staff and making them work is different.
For the mercenary part, most often they are semi to pro level or self-proclaimed pros who charges even with small drawings/changes. A thorough check of applicants should prevent an employer from hiring a staff with this attitude.

I should also add that a slave's work should also be discouraged.

[Victoria Jennings]

I should also add that a slave's work should also be discouraged.

Wait... what? Are you implying that an artist that works for free is a slave? O_o;;

[Widget]

^
Uhh, read it again? I said "slave's work". I never said anything about slaves.
If you're a hobbyist or you draw for fun and experience, go ahead.
But hiring a staff to follow orders, chase deadlines and such without/uncertain pay is a no-no.
Also, this:

Because nobody in the community should be expected to do anything for free.

[Auro-Cyanide]

They're paid to do their work alright.

Free games or commercial, hiring a staff and making them work is different.
For the mercenary part, most often they are semi to pro level or self-proclaimed pros who charges even with small drawings/changes. A thorough check of applicants should prevent an employer from hiring a staff with this attitude.

I should also add that a slave's work should also be discouraged.

It's perfectly fine to work for free. For those of us who are doing it as a hobby it's sometimes preferable. I have a job, I don't need the money and I certainly don't need the stress. I get pay off in other ways by working on whatever I want to work on and having creative freedom. It's all about having a balance and the artist/whomever being happy with that balance. Problems only crop up when expectations outweigh pay off, but I don't think that is what is happening here. They aren't asking for anything too extreme and they offer freedom, and I'm sure they understand that an unattached artists is a flight risk.

If you don't want to work for free, that's cool. But that doesn't mean no one will. Free artists are a little harder to find, but there are people who do like to just have hobbies as long as they get something out of it.

Also, Pytom was pointing to himself, because he offers and supports Ren'Py for free. He was being sarcastic.

[Victoria Jennings]

Okay, this is the last time I'm posting on this thread, as I don't want to assist in any further derailment Sorry, Funnyguts and Reikun!, but if you're doing something you're passionate about, and you care more about the act of doing it than the end product, then I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem to be very open-minded of you to judge them. We've already established that there are people who work for free. At this point, it sounds more like you're criticizing them than the OP. :'B

Now, I wish you guys much success in finding an artist! Good luck. C:

[Widget]

Hobbyists and those who are looking for a paid work are both OK.

and you care more about the act of doing it than the end product, then I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem to be very open-minded of you to judge them.

That's OBVIOUSLY not someone with a hobbyist trait. It's like you're saying that those who are not hobbyists and a person who's seeking a paid work is not open-minded while hobbyists and those who do it for free are open-minded? You're clearly not viewing things in perspective, you should think of the other's side too. You're not open-minded yourself too.

If a hobbyist applies for the position, then it's not problem >_>
My point is: If you'll pay, pay them. Not with an uncertain condition. That's unfair.

[Taleweaver]

My point is: If you'll pay, pay them. Not with an uncertain condition. That's unfair.

The point of this recruitment thread, as I and apparently most people aside from you understood, is that this is a non-commercial, unpaid project. The makers are humbly looking for like-minded artists willing to help them, not offering a paid job for professionals. There may be a little money in it, but only people who don't insist on getting paid should apply.

Yes, good artists should be paid. But asking if any artists are willing to help out without payment isn't the crime you seem to believe it is.

[Widget]

The makers are humbly looking for like-minded artists willing to help them, not offering a paid job for professionals. There may be a little money in it, but only people who don't insist on getting paid should apply.

OP never said anything about "like-minded artists". So, it's a gray area for both hobbyists and job-seekers.
In my position as a job-seeker, I'm questioning to clear this and I get flogged for doing so.

But asking if any artists are willing to help out without payment isn't the crime you seem to believe it is.

Only applies for hobbyists.
Willing to help doesn't mean free.
Charity and generosity are probably what most of you are looking for.



-------------------------

This would be my last post.
Let me get this simple and straight.

There are two type of artists you can hire:
1. Hobbyists &
2. Job-seekers

If you guys have not noticed yet, I belong to group 2.
I have no problem with hobbyists, if you guys apply, go ahead.

OP said: "Will I get paid?" "Possibly" which for me, who belong to group 2, is an unfair deal.
Then Reikun was implying that they work for free so you should also work for free.
While I, again, who belong to the job-seekers group, obviously disagrees with this.
When he's just a butt-in and not the OP.
Anyone who's just smart enough will know it's inapplicable for both group.

You guys keep on pressing me about a hobbyist's terms (free, willing to volunteer, does't insist on getting paid, beneficence, helping-hand, etc) which I clearly know! I respect hobbyists but it seems like you guys didn't get my point. The OP never even said anything about this. I was just asking to make this clear!
Then most of you who are leaned on group 1 are already treating me as someone who's not open-minded, criticizer, mercenary, and a villain! Just because I'm a job-seeker. I'm being whipped for questioning and making assurance for my potential work!!

Is it a sin to find a job to feed myself?
Haters gonna hate, don't care what you guys gonna say any further.
I'll continue to find work.

[Taleweaver]

There are two type of artists you can hire:
1. Hobbyists &
2. Job-seekers

There's a third kind of artist you can't hire but find:
3. Professionals who are willing to contribute stuff for free just because they like the project

Just because I'm a job-seeker. I'm being whipped for questioning and making assurance for my potential work!!

You're getting whipped for claiming the generous kind of artist doesn't exist and for claiming OP is looking for slaves.

[yu1988]

Widget, i see you're off-track with your comments. It's not like i don't understand your point, but you completely misread anything Funnyguts said.

I'm a developer myself, and i hire people from art fields to help me with my project. You know what i will post if i'm the OP? My terms will be:

What am I getting myself into?
You search for yourself, please? If you can't research about our project, then you can't work with us.

Will I have a deadline?
Yes, strictly. Because we pay you. Sometimes you will need to overwork.

Will I get paid?
Yes. This is a commercial project. We pay you up to your skill.

What are you looking for?
We have our style and you will need to follow it with other artists to match the game.

Anything else you want me to know?
Hard-working. I'm not paying you 60$-100$ a CG for sleeping.

Now look back to OP's post please? The main problem is you haven't figured out which is a hiring post for commercial and which is for non-commercial.
And in this post, obviously, people won't seeking for those who want payment, but fun and passion.

That's all. No offense. If you read it, hope you will give a thought.