Game resolution

[KomiTsuku]

Mind, it's not all about using a lot of space just because you can. Especially in a VN, there's an argument to be made that it's nice to see both the text and the sprites at once instead of having to move your eyes back and forth between the two.

There's also an argument about being able to actually read the text without a magnifying glass. 800x600 was the standard nearly two decade ago, it is time to advance into the new millennium.

[AxemRed]

Mind, it's not all about using a lot of space just because you can. Especially in a VN, there's an argument to be made that it's nice to see both the text and the sprites at once instead of having to move your eyes back and forth between the two.

If you have this problem, you're sitting too close to the screen. Between 1.5 and 2.5 times the screen diagonal is the standard recommended distance.

[PyTom]

A big problem is the sheer range of devices out there. Right now, people are using everything from 1024x600 netbooks to things like my 1600x1200 screen. Trying to satisfy everyone is difficult.

[DeeKay]

A big problem is the sheer range of devices out there. Right now, people are using everything from 1024x600 netbooks to things like my 1600x1200 screen. Trying to satisfy everyone is difficult.

Right, that pretty much sums it up. You can either support a wide variety of devices or restrict the possibilities depending on the resolution you go for.
I guess you'd need to know what your target audience is using mainly so you can adjust accordingly. It's still hard to account for though.

I personally prefer higher resolutions than 800x600 because of what I use, mainly full HD monitors. And as said before, outputting something which is not in the native resolution of this type of screen will make it look way more pixelated than on an older monitor for example. Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be 1920x1080 as 1280x720 is already a good step up, especially for the 16:9 aspect ratio you get.

[papillon]

Mind, it's not all about using a lot of space just because you can. Especially in a VN, there's an argument to be made that it's nice to see both the text and the sprites at once instead of having to move your eyes back and forth between the two.

If you have this problem, you're sitting too close to the screen. Between 1.5 and 2.5 times the screen diagonal is the standard recommended distance.

It can still be a problem if people make the image bigger but don't make the text bigger, or keep the text too close to the bottom edge for the new resolution, or use widescreen and let the text stretch alll the way across the screen which is hard on most eyes...

[nyaatrap]

It's strange noone makes 1280x768 game. Monitors which can cover 1280x720 also cover 1280x768, and it can show images dot by dot properly in those monitors while height 720 can't in some monitors with ren'py engine.
It's also strange noone makes 1024x600 game. It's just better than 800x600 though.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I love 800x600 still, even in Full Screen mode! I really hope it doesn't die out 'too soon' because of all these abnormally big resolutions people have now of days.

Well, that's just it. As was linked to earlier, these aren't "abnormally big resolutions" - they are the literal "normal" or "average" resolutions. Go look at some LCD monitors for sale - good luck finding anything less than 1920x1080 - any resolutions less than that are few and far between. In my opinion, the 4:3 ratio is going to go extinct. No new displays are being made in that ratio.

It's cool you can stand non-native resolutions blown-up fullscreen on your (LCD?) monitor, but as a digital artist, and as someone whose day job is currently working at a professional printshop, I can't stand the blurriness and artifacting that appears when this is done. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard for my eyes. The number one reason I don't play more VNs is the tiny resolutions some creators insist on.

A big problem is the sheer range of devices out there. Right now, people are using everything from 1024x600 netbooks to things like my 1600x1200 screen. Trying to satisfy everyone is difficult.

I'd love to see VNs support multiple screen resolutions like other games. The art assets could be made at the maximum resolution size, then downscaled to produce lower resolution assets. The player could choose a resolution from the menu that would trip a flag that determined which size of assets would be loaded and where they would be positioned onscreen.

[papillon]

It's not impossible afaik, but I think many of us wince at the filesize implications of having to ship all the assets in multiple resolutions for a downloadable game. There are some lurking bugs with downscaling transparent images inside RenPy iirc, so it would have to be full image sets.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

It's not impossible afaik, but I think many of us wince at the filesize implications of having to ship all the assets in multiple resolutions for a downloadable game. There are some lurking bugs with downscaling transparent images inside RenPy iirc, so it would have to be full image sets.

I was suggesting full image sets. I don't think on the fly scaling of all the images in a game would be very kind to a person's CPU. Or at the least a waste of processing power.

And maybe I'm spoiled, but I've gotten used to downloading huge 8-12 GB Steam games the last several years. The difference to me, personally, of downloading 500 MB versus 1.5 GB is negligible. With good compression, an full 1920x1080 CG or background clocks in around 750 KB. Let's say 1 MB for easy math. You could stuff a 100 of them into the game and only increase the file size by 100 MB.

I find it odd that other games, even indies, regularly clock in at 500 MB or more and no one complains, but the VN community acts stricken if file size even approaches that. It seems so stuck in the past, like the 800x600 resolution. I mean - these are VISUAL novels. The art should be just as important as the writing; it's half the equation. Yet a lot of VN creators are making tiny little pieces of 800x600 art, then compressing the fire out them. No one would think it was cool to put a letter character limit on each scene or restrict the entire story to 60 KB or less.

[papillon]

Heh, I'm just used to the old days of indie when you were in trouble if your game hit 20MB. I'm still getting used to the idea of 100MB being allowed! (And I still have customers whose connections will tend to crap out on 50MB+ downloads.) There are plenty of other genres that keep it small too, but anyone aiming at a Steam audience has no incentive to keep the numbers down.

Technically I could just about try it with TRT... might experiment once the script is done.

[bunbun]

I am pretty used to be playing in 800 x 600 pix, probably because the games I played came in that resolution.

I wonder how many people play in full screen?
I like to play in default screen while chat and stream games to my friends ^^

I only own a laptop and the screen is rather small, thus if it gets too large (1200 pix above) I wouldn't be able to play OTL

[Mirage]

And maybe I'm spoiled, but I've gotten used to downloading huge 8-12 GB Steam games the last several years. The difference to me, personally, of downloading 500 MB versus 1.5 GB is negligible. With good compression, an full 1920x1080 CG or background clocks in around 750 KB. Let's say 1 MB for easy math. You could stuff a 100 of them into the game and only increase the file size by 100 MB.

I find it odd that other games, even indies, regularly clock in at 500 MB or more and no one complains, but the VN community acts stricken if file size even approaches that. It seems so stuck in the past, like the 800x600 resolution. I mean - these are VISUAL novels. The art should be just as important as the writing; it's half the equation. Yet a lot of VN creators are making tiny little pieces of 800x600 art, then compressing the fire out them. No one would think it was cool to put a letter character limit on each scene or restrict the entire story to 60 KB or less.

Well, remember a while ago, there's a thread about internet speed. I believe that should tell you that many of us don't have desirable internet. 500 mb game is the fastest way to stop me from even trying. That took a whole day to download lol! And imagine if I have to make such a game. The upload will take even longer that that!

The same goes with screen resolution. It was just recently that I switched to 1920x1080 computer screen. Before that, I have a 1024x768. I tried playing some games with higher resolution, or even one with SAME resolution. And guess what happened? I can't even click some buttons, they got cut off by the taskbar. I can't even access the menu to change it to full screen.

This is why I prefer having smaller screen size. I don't like playing at full screen, I prefer having them at window size. I actually find 800x600 size game small and cute on my 1920x1080 monitor.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

And maybe I'm spoiled, but I've gotten used to downloading huge 8-12 GB Steam games the last several years. The difference to me, personally, of downloading 500 MB versus 1.5 GB is negligible. With good compression, an full 1920x1080 CG or background clocks in around 750 KB. Let's say 1 MB for easy math. You could stuff a 100 of them into the game and only increase the file size by 100 MB.

I find it odd that other games, even indies, regularly clock in at 500 MB or more and no one complains, but the VN community acts stricken if file size even approaches that. It seems so stuck in the past, like the 800x600 resolution. I mean - these are VISUAL novels. The art should be just as important as the writing; it's half the equation. Yet a lot of VN creators are making tiny little pieces of 800x600 art, then compressing the fire out them. No one would think it was cool to put a letter character limit on each scene or restrict the entire story to 60 KB or less.

Well, remember a while ago, there's a thread about internet speed. I believe that should tell you that many of us don't have desirable internet. 500 mb game is the fastest way to stop me from even trying. That took a whole day to download lol! And imagine if I have to make such a game. The upload will take even longer that that!

The same goes with screen resolution. It was just recently that I switched to 1920x1080 computer screen. Before that, I have a 1024x768. I tried playing some games with higher resolution, or even one with SAME resolution. And guess what happened? I can't even click some buttons, they got cut off by the taskbar. I can't even access the menu to change it to full screen.

This is why I prefer having smaller screen size. I don't like playing at full screen, I prefer having them at window size. I actually find 800x600 size game small and cute on my 1920x1080 monitor.

I think this goes back to a lot of the community quickly sampling games, or downloading a lot of VNs blind based off premise. Small file size makes that easy, and you don't lose much investment in time or bandwidth. But are you telling me you wouldn't spend a day downloading a game you knew a lot about and were excited for? It all depends on what value you place on a game. I remember when I had awful internet. I didn't download things lightly, but if I knew what I was getting was good, and I wanted it? I didn't mind spending several nights downloading with a download manager while I slept. (Dial-up.)

And the thing about resolution is that it doesn't have to be either or. It is no more fair to make you play a game too big for your screen than it is to make someone play a game too small for theirs. Honestly, I'm arguing for more creator's to be conscious of these issues and offer options. It takes only a little extra work - no new strain on art creation.
1) Make art work at the highest resolution you'll support.
2) Downscale art work into separate "resolution pack" sets.
3) Start the game in a small window (800x600) with graphic options available. The player gets to choose what resolution to play the game at. Set the appropriate flag or variable to True for that resolution.
4) Set up your game code to load and call the appropriate "resolution pack" for the art based off which flag has been toggled on. This is as easy as putting some If, Else statements into your Image Declaration block.
If 1920x1080 flag is True,
image sylvie smile = "sylvie_smile_highres.png"
Else,
image sylvie smile = "sylvie_smile_lowres.png"

Ideally you'd have several different popular screen resolutions available - 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200, 1680x1050, 1920x1080, etc.

The rest of your code could stay the same, aside from possibly modifying image placement coordinates between the versions. (And I've mentioned before how you could do this automatically using math to make it adapt to changing resolutions.) If you've already thought ahead and created the art work at higher resolutions (and creating artwork for ANYTHING you should be creating at a larger size than the finished product), you've got what - one, maybe two days of extra busy work? And it keeps everyone happy - those that want a tiny screen to play on their laptop while they do other things, and people that want a large window or fullscreen that looks good on their LCD.

[Mirage]

@LateWhiteRabbit

lol, of course if I know what I'm getting, I don't mind downloading 500 mb of game. The point is you never know until you try it, right? I have tried many games with rave reviews, beautiful screenshots, enticing premise, or brilliant demo, only to be disappointed in the end.

Just as you refuse to play some games because of their resolution, I have a lot of things to consider before downloading 500 mb of a game. Anyone with slow internet knows that if you download something for a whole day, expect yourself unable to browse much during that day too. Not to mention, my internet is shared between my family. Imagine what they say if I hog it for the entire day. It's easy to say, if it's a good game it worth it. But what if it isn't? In many ways it's a gamble.

As for having multiple resolution... this is one of those I consider, looks easy to say, hard to do. Different resolution means different GUI design. You have to rearrange everything in order to get multiple resolution to work. All this time can be invested for making another game.

tl;dr I have learned that it's impossible to please everyone. Everyone has different taste, and different resolution.

[nyaatrap]

hm? Images can eat up so much file size? It's smaller than voices or videos.
If it's so big, That must be scripter's failure who neglected optimizing it. Then what you should say is "optimizing it", not "resizing down it". And if they are still bigger for you after that, then you can say "I prefer jpeg". There's many techniques to reducing file size. (however, many Japanese makers don't want to optimize their games - to prevent pirating)
Though full-HD is really heavy - not just in file size, also its decompression time and RAM usage (Ren'py has 1.3 GB limit). But less than WXGA(1280x768) aren't so heavy. There're many reason to avoid over WXGA, but I find few reason to use under XGA.