How much to pay writers?

[Goblin Maiden]

This is something I've been wondering, myself; the answers have been really interesting/informative. I'll definitely be keeping tabs on this thread to refer back to later.

[CainVoorhees]

What do we think about milestone payments?

At my video editing job, I get paid a set amount depending on the sequences I finish editing. For example, $30 for every montage I finish editing (which will take about two to three hours each). This is one way to avoid paying hourly wages for people who aren't productive.

I imagine it'd be the same for artists. Finish this sprite set, I'll pay you $X. Finish this background set, I'll pay you $X.

I wouldn't know how it would work for a writer though. What are the items you pay for? I see we've talked about paying per word, but are there other items for measurement?

I know writers in the film industry are paid to write first drafts, second drafts, and so on if they're commissioned by a producer. Sometimes writers are even paid for a script they already wrote that may not even be produced for years, if ever (sometimes just to prevent anyone else from producing the same script).

[SundownKid]

For a writer, milestone payments are usually in words. Measurements such as "pages" are too nebulous, but words are easily measured. For example, I'll pay you X dollars for each 800 word article. When the writer finishes the article, they get paid and move on to the next one. Similar to how an artist would get paid per picture, a writer would get paid per article, or block of text, or chapter, etc.

[dramspringfeald]

Well there are 3 basic options.

By the word
By the Paragraph
By Commission
By the Two

By the word ~
It's simple really for every word you write and MAKE IT into the game you give them 1¢ or 2¢ each.
($0.20 to $0.40 Just for that sentence)

By the Paragraph / Page~
It's JUST like "By the Word" but MUCH cheaper. Instead of by the Word you go by the Paragraph. About 50¢ or $1 each that make it into the game AND are over a certain length.

By Commission ~
Also simple. You get "$XXX" for a project. If it runs under you get "overtime" however if it runs over you are NOT getting paid.

By Combination of the two~
Given a Budget if the Game runs over you get paid by the word. If it does not you only get that flat rate.

====
You also could sign a residual check Contract saying you get a small portion of anything sold. You get Whatever you were paid PLUS 15¢ Per unit sold after 1000 units. IF your game does well you get paid more, if it flops you get paid nothing more.

[SundownKid]

All those other options are just more unfair to the writer than "pay by the word", though. Any artist I would hire would require me to outline all the work, and a writer is no different. I doubt any artist or writer worth much would consider doing unpaid "overtime" considering it's freelance already. By the word is a nice, precise estimate without any strings attached for either party.

[dramspringfeald]

All those other options are just more unfair to the writer than "pay by the word", though. Any artist I would hire would require me to outline all the work, and a writer is no different. I doubt any artist or writer worth much would consider doing unpaid "overtime" considering it's freelance already. By the word is a nice, precise estimate without any strings attached for either party.

That is the thing about budgets and contracts. There are plenty of Artists, Video Game producers, Animators and the like who do the same thing. If they run out of money or time THEY work for free. It's a consequence for violating the contract.

[CainVoorhees]

All those other options are just more unfair to the writer than "pay by the word", though. Any artist I would hire would require me to outline all the work, and a writer is no different. I doubt any artist or writer worth much would consider doing unpaid "overtime" considering it's freelance already. By the word is a nice, precise estimate without any strings attached for either party.

That's one of the negotiations you'll have to make as a project manager or a writer. I think the decision is more complex then that. If I was a project manager, why would I pay someone green per word? If I'm going to pay the most expensive option, you better be worth it and on time. Even more so that your skill is discernible. Chances are, I'm not going to find many people at this level. Hell, you better have won an award or two if I want to take this risk.

However, there are a lot of freelance writers. With the other options, the business risk is mitigated. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, if you're not willing to work with my conditions then I can always find someone else. There are lots of freelance writers out there.

[Auro-Cyanide]

However, there are a lot of freelance writers. With the other options, the business risk is mitigated. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, if you're not willing to work with my conditions then I can always find someone else. There are lots of freelance writers out there.

While it is your right to make such agreements, please remember that if you don't treat those that work for you fairly, don't expect them to do right by you. The more you cut corners, the more risk you take on getting someone who lacks quality, reliably and integrity. Finding reliable people is far easier said than done general, especially given the nature of the internet. While it's easier to replace a writer than an artist in terms of consistency, it's still problematic to introduce a new person to a mid-way project, especially if the previous writer didn't leave any notes. And even with a contract, you still would have to pursue legal action if they break it, and if they're in another country that can be difficult.

By word is a nice, discernible amount (far better than anything art has at the moment). If someone doesn't have the skill or experience to command I high pay point per word, simply pay them less per word (while still be fair). It doesn't mean you should throw away the measurement all together. Even when you want to measure on a larger scale, it's still broken in per word. You can't say 'I'll pay you xxx to write this game' to a freelancer. What the hell is a game? 50,000 words? 100,000? 500,000? You are going to have to actually define it. Same goes with scene/pages/routes whatever you choose. Then if you change you mind and want to add content, then the writer has a write to ask for more money. No-one is going to put up with a producer moving goal posts (and they most likely will) without compensation. Same goes the other way, you don't want to pay a writer for more than they do unless it's a bonus. Per word arrangements are good for everyone.

A share of fairness can go a long. And you can even get more bang for your buck if the writer actually gives a damn about you.

[CainVoorhees]

However, there are a lot of freelance writers. With the other options, the business risk is mitigated. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, if you're not willing to work with my conditions then I can always find someone else. There are lots of freelance writers out there.

While it is your right to make such agreements, please remember that if you don't treat those that work for you fairly, don't expect them to do right by you.

Yes. That's something I failed to mention. The attitude in my reply is actually more rare then I make it seem; the truth is, most sensible people are usually willing to negotiate.

[SundownKid]

All those other options are just more unfair to the writer than "pay by the word", though. Any artist I would hire would require me to outline all the work, and a writer is no different. I doubt any artist or writer worth much would consider doing unpaid "overtime" considering it's freelance already. By the word is a nice, precise estimate without any strings attached for either party.

That's one of the negotiations you'll have to make as a project manager or a writer. I think the decision is more complex then that. If I was a project manager, why would I pay someone green per word? If I'm going to pay the most expensive option, you better be worth it and on time. Even more so that your skill is discernible. Chances are, I'm not going to find many people at this level. Hell, you better have won an award or two if I want to take this risk.

However, there are a lot of freelance writers. With the other options, the business risk is mitigated. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, if you're not willing to work with my conditions then I can always find someone else. There are lots of freelance writers out there.

By the word is not the most expensive option, it's the only option if you want to find an actual quality writer. If you don't define the length of the written piece, don't expect someone who isn't a total noob to devote their time to the nebulously described project like "write this game" or "write this book". Just like if you ask a commissioned artist to "draw these pics", they will probably stop as soon as you stop paying them per pic. If you want someone who will abandon the project at the drop of a hat, then sure, make them work extra unpaid.