Is a visual novel a "game"? Grad student needs your opinion!

[Alera]

Like some others said, I'd categorize them as games, except most kinetic novels. I see KNs as books more, or maybe better to say comics? Since they usually have images and visuals. But VNs with at least one choice, even without any other aspects, I think it's enough to call them games~

[Kinjo]

I think one would have a hard time arguing VNs cannot be games. As was already said, the sorites paradox is basically the heart of the issue.

However, since we're talking semantics now, do we mean "game" or "video game"? There is a difference. For example, board games aren't video games. They can be, but they aren't exclusively. I could make the argument that books are games in a sense. If there's ever a puzzle or something to make the reader think, then there is some level of interactivity which constitutes as a "game". So I think that even kinetic novels can be considered games simply by having an engaging story that makes the reader think (and rewards their curiosity) about what they are reading -- not just digest it mindlessly.

On the other side, if we take "game" to mean "video game", I'd say there's an even stronger argument. VNs are a piece of software; they are composed of graphics and music; they require either mouse or keyboard input. Are they the same kind of video game as Super Mario 64? No, but that's fine. They fall within the wide spectrum of video games, probably on the far lower end where interactivity is concerned. But all the elements of a game are still there -- graphics, sound, programming, and writing, with an huge emphasis on writing, of course.

So either way, I would say that visual novels or kinetic novels or whatever you want to call them are in fact games. Where on that spectrum it falls on highly depends on the game itself, so it's kind of pointless to categorize them any further in general terms.

[cesullivan]

OMG, I love you all. I never expected so many thoughtful replies, but I guess I should have. Thank you! I want to comment on so many things you guys have said, like:

I'll almost always say "I'm playing gamename.", but there's some ambiguity in the word play - it works for movies, slideshows, games, music, etc.

You're right, I forgot we also say "play music" or "play a movie"! It's kind of weird, when you think about it. I guess "play" means something like "engage in" or "engage with" in those contexts, but I wonder how it got that meaning? Wait, unless that actually was the original meaning...come to think of it, that seems likely.

The umbrella term used for things including the old Choose Your Own Adventure series is "gamebook", because they are not pure books, but games contained within books. That includes stories that are purely choice-driven as well as gamebooks that included out-of-text puzzles (riddles, logic puzzles, graphical puzzles) or even ones with small solo RPGs in them.

I didn't know about Choose Your Own Adventures being called gamebooks, thanks papillon! People are always bringing Choose Your Own Adventure Novels up when they argue that works of interactive fiction aren't games. Because surely, a book can't be a game...

I mean, I consider this a game.

Thanks for the link! You're right, that's something that a lot of people would say isn't technically a game, but there's no other convenient term for it, is there? It's actually a lot like some of the games we play in the Games and Gallery Art course I'm taking, seemingly, so that we can continuously discuss the question "what is a game?"

I don't think the question is very meaningful. The problem isn't distinguishing games between non-games, so much as trying to distinguish one thing from another. It's a sorites paradox.

Thank you, just...THANK YOU. Now I have a term for exactly what I was thinking. And you're right about the creation of visual novels involving many of the same skills as other kinds of games.

One last thing I really need to comment on, before I get back to the argument I was just having with with Photoshop...

Perhaps there is an even more important question: What do your professors want to hear?

About 2 weeks into this semester, I decided I didn't care what anyone else thought anymore, and that I was just going to perform this experiment in which I said and did exactly what I wanted to do. Like make a visual novel for one of my projects, and choose Christine Love as the indie game developer I'm doing a presentation on, even though she wasn't on the list (consequently, that's why I'm going to have to make this argument in class). After all, why am I going to school if not to work on the projects that I want to work on? Besides, in grad school, I think it's all about contributing to a discussion, not just passively absorbing information...so what would I have to contribute if I suppressed my own unique perspective, just because it conflicted with someone else's? Anyway, the professor for this particular class is pretty cool, and I'm sure what he wants to hear is what I actually think, as long as I can back it up with a plausible argument.

[Endorphin]

If you want to read more about this stuff, I'd advise you "The Art of Game Design - a Book of Lenses" by Jesse Schell (http://artofgamedesign.com/).
In the beginning, it starts giving anchors about how to define "fun", "toy" and "game".
I believe it came to the conclusion that "a game is a problem solving activity, approached with a playful attitude", but encourages you make an individual definition by giving you points to think about.
(Schell is of the opinion that a game contains the following things: "entered wilfully, goals, conflict, rules, can be won/lost, interactive, challenge, can create own internal value, engages player, closed&formal system".)

For me, most VNs are games.
But then again--I always wished that RPGs would just cut all that fighting out since I got my fun from interacting with NPCs, so maybe I have different priorities.

- En.

[SundownKid]

Are visual novels games? Please answer with any one OR MORE of the following: Yes, No, and I Don't Care ("Yes and No" is a completely valid answer, as is "Yes and I Don't Care" or "No and I Don't Care" or "Yes and No and I Don't Care"). Then please explain your answer.

My answer is "yes and I don't care", since I am willing to read a visual novel whether or not it's a "game". However, visual novels are games. Kinetic novels, on the other hand, are not games just as much as a typical novel or comic book is not a game - since a game has to have some level of player interactivity to arrive at a different outcome. The choices in visual novels make them interactive, and games, since a different choice unlocks at least some kind of different dialogue. The level of interactivity in a game does not affect its status a game, just as Dear Esther is as much of a game as Call of Duty.

[cesullivan]

If you want to read more about this stuff, I'd advise you "The Art of Game Design - a Book of Lenses" by Jesse Schell (http://artofgamedesign.com/).

I've read it ^_^ I wish I actually owned a copy to use as a reference, but as it is, I'd have to go borrow it from the library again...I might just do that.

[cesullivan]

I finally posted my other question to the creators' forum, here: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=23530

[Tsundere Lightning]

I'm in the Arts and Technology program at UT Dallas, more specifically, in the game design program. "What is a game?" is a question that comes up in almost every class I take in my program. And I'll tell you this now, most people in my program probably don't think that visual novels qualify as games (although I've only heard one professor say it explicitly).

So anyway, I need to make an argument on whether or not visual novels are games as part of a presentation for a grad class on Games in Gallery Spaces. What my argument is, I haven't completely decided. So, I'd really like to try to guage the opinion of the visual novel community itself, which, academics aside, I think should be taken into account...well, that's what I think, but I might just be a weirdo ;P

Yes. And no.

Visual novels are not necessarily games.

To qualify as a game, a visual novel needs to have meaningful choices. Gameplay, in other words.

But I would absolutely count a visual novel with branching choices as a game, yes. They're choose-your-own-adventure (or romance, or mystery) games with a simple streamlined interface. Some of them have incredibly complex relationship tracking systems that a skilled player needs to mainpulate before you even bring more traditional RPG or adventure game elements into the mix.