Come to think of it...the main character never meets Fram's parents, right?Gwehehehe X3... I can see so many things going bad with this XD.and marrying Fram....what would her parents think? Wink Come to think of it...the main character never meets Fram's parents, right?
... Sci-fi, dark fantasy, shounen fantasy, comedy and MB2. Make that 5 :/...This is precisely the feeling I get, now that I'm taking a short break to browse these forums before writing the main event that leads towards the final ending of Nettestadt Troll. The actual "gameplay" / minigame aspects, I noticed, turn out to be just 3 occurrences. I originally planned at least 4 or 5, but then the realization I have is that they are really not that necessary to advance the story, because the game is mostly story.. I also applied the principle to the menus, eliminating extraneous ones that do not really contribute to advancing the story or its direction.monele wrote: I'll very probably go towards a more story-focused concept. Sorry for the management fans but this means that there won't be as much interface and clicking so much.
I'm just not sure yet wether MB2 will still be "Magical Boutique" if I go with this more adventure-ish concept. Hence why the other 5 projects look shiny too : they might be more adapted to the adventure genre.
I've been playing with this idea a *lot*, and I have to say, it's totally doable in Ren'Py. Especially an IF-style room/location structure. The big problem I've run into is that, once the framework is done, I never seem to want to actually enter all the quests and characters into it.monele wrote: ** What I want **
- A system that allows exploration freedom to a certain degree
If you'd like to see what I've got, I'd be happy to share! It's not pretty (my programming is best described as 'stubborn'), but maybe it'd be of use for inspiration or something.monele wrote:Haha, trying to sum it up turns into me detailing everything... ^^;... ah well... I probably haven't stated everything, but this might give an idea of what's up.
If people have (working?) examples of similar games... maybe... I would be interested. And of course, this is open to discussion ^.^
) And it would lead to a quite unique gameplay style. I believe that The Nettestadt Troll will be at least similar to that concept and it's another game I am anticipating! Games can benefit a lot from intresting gameplays, as well as from prfound stories and amazing art use. ( and even music and sound, the forgotten elements... )That's what I had in mind, yesit's totally doable in Ren'Py. Especially an IF-style room/location structure.
That's my problem with any game XD. But I like the fact that you can quickly build a two room world and then slowly add new places, then fill them with people and things to do, etc... You get an instant feedback on your thoughts and it's more fulfilling, I think ^^once the framework is done, I never seem to want to actually enter all the quests and characters into it.
Obviously, and that's why I've kept going from one to the other ^^;... I still find it hard to write a story, but MB and subsequent tries made me realize making a *game* is not any easier. But even if inspiration is hard to come by, I think I like making up stories and characters more, in the end ^.^;is that a story-style game is so much easier than a complicated, side quest-filled, stat-based one, just because you (the developer) can control all the cards!
Sure! It'd be nice to see the same concept done by someone else.If you'd like to see what I've got, I'd be happy to share!
It's nothing new, really... as I said, two H-games already use this and Nettstadt also goes with this idea ^^.You have some very intresting ideas there, monele...
... It'll be part entertainment and part guinea pig ^3^.Mh... I know what we're going for is rather gimmicky, but I do hope it will at least feel different and fresh. The last thing we want is people getting bored of the genre ^.^Games can benefit a lot from intresting gameplays
I think I have discovered a way around this. Yeah, it was overwhelming at first when I first sat down and well "Aww, hell, now I would have to code all of this crap up."The big problem I've run into is that, once the framework is done, I never seem to want to actually enter all the quests and characters into it.
Been thinking about this... I think I'll either go with the Nocturnal Illusion solution : a map of the current floor/zone, a simple click leading you to a room... or with a list of places you can go from where you are (you're in the lobby, you get an icon for the dining room, the hall and upstairs).The thing is, it is highly recommended that these sorts of room-structure thingies are visual... I mean, if I were presented with a menu that says "Go Up. Go Down. Go Left. Go Right." I would bang my head against the monitor in frustration.
.I think this approach *could* work, but it's a matter of how often clicking on extraneous locations would be necessary. In a game where you'd have only a few repetitions (say, a new area opens up each segment while the old area closes off), it wouldn't be horrible, while one where you're traveling over the same ground over and over endlessly would drive most players nuts.monele wrote:The second solution means it's a bit more annoying for the player since he actually clicks through places he doesn't need to be at.
This is the approach I used for Eidolon. You're right, it can be overly simple, and it's hard to keep it reasonably interactive! And it moves away from 'game' and towards 'story', I think, if that makes sense? With 'game' being something like Final Fantasy or Jade Empire or even Baldur's Gate -- you play the game to be rewarded with more story -- and 'story' being a more traditional VN, where you follow the story on a path throughout the game to an ending.monele wrote:The simplest is that by simply being in a room where something is supposed to happen, it will happen. If raised a conversation flag for Mika, the next time Mika is in the room, you'll talk to her. Simple, but it would mean the player only "moves around"... A bit *too* simple and boring imo ^^;...
I implemented a framework like this for my AIF conversion (I'll PM you a link), with clickable hot buttons (think of the old adventure games, like King's Quest), a room structure, and a keyword-based interaction system and conversation system.monele wrote:I would rather go with two other menus : characters and objects/actions. If a character is in the room, a thumbnail is clickable to interact with him. It doesn't mean the character won't initiate a convo at times, but most of the time, it's the player would should know who to talk to.
Exactly my dilemma! It really boils down to, when designing something like this, what demands the story you want to tell makes of the game structure. The problem is, I often come up with these elaborate frameworks -- take Eidolon, for example -- and then later find that they really aren't necessary for the story. I think you need a very big story with a sizable cast to really justify making a complicated game framework.monele wrote:It could be more complex, with a whole visible inventory, separate objects with multiple actions (look, use, take) but this would really turn into some first person view adventure game with, I think, too much complexicity for its own good.
That's a string of pearls structure! I've always wanted to try one (Eidolon was originally planned to use it but it ended up being unnecessary). And one of my favorite non-quite-a-VN games (Vampire TM: Bloodlines) uses this structure. I think you're right, it definitely provides a nice balance between freedom to explore and plot constraints. And it's great for horror/suspense, because you can play up the 'trapped' aspects for each segment.monele wrote:There's something I want to have to simplify things and avoid story-based bugs as much as possible : phases. I think they're called "scenes" or "acts" in the last Inform version. Basically, I'd define multiple time periods which globally define the state of the game (time of day, general ambience, where most people are, what can be done, what's the main goal) and have only a few "exits".
That's what I imagine it would be like, yes. But it all depends on the game. If you think of a game taking place in a mansion, it would make sense to explore multiple rooms, and maybe use the "connected rooms" system... if only to help the player get a feel for the place he'll be living in.while one where you're traveling over the same ground over and over endlessly would drive most players nuts.
The bar part, uh?This is the approach I used for Eidolon.
. Sadly, there wasn't much to do and the exits were very straightforward. I guess that the room system probably needs a minimum number of rooms and things to do to make you forget you're hooked to the storyline.Okie ^_^I implemented a framework like this for my AIF conversion (I'll PM you a link)
That's why I'm trying to make something not too complicated, yet with a gamey feeling. I think there's a big difference between a game that gives you a choice between "fix the lamp" and "talk to Mika" and a game that gives you "pick up, use, look at, open, close, ..." verbs and quite a few objects in each room to use these on.I think you need a very big story with a sizable cast to really justify making a complicated game framework.
Actually, you're describing MB1 as it was supposed to be here ^^. But MB2 might steer away from that. As I said, I might abandon stats and focus on choices. If you take a scale with story on the left and game on the right, the current project would be quite far on the left.I'd really love to do a very complex game like you describe -- something with sidequests and multiple paths, stats and stat-based challenges -- a "game" VN as opposed to a "story" VN.
Yep ^^...That's a string of pearls structure!
I've heard a lot about this game and, while I'm not sure I'd enjoy playing it, I'd certainly love to read about all the possibilities ^^.And one of my favorite non-quite-a-VN games (Vampire TM: Bloodlines) uses this structure.
I might love talking about games more than making them, honestly, so no problemIt's fun to talk about this! Hope I'm not diverting your thread too much.
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