New Term for Visual Novels? [split]

[Broodelin]

What about flow novel? It's a weird term for sure, but when I think about visual novels, it's not so much like reading pages as much as it is like watching the words and graphics flow through space to make the story seem... alive. There's a certain flow/pacing to visual novels that I don't think I've seen in any other modern-day medium, unlike a book/comic, and certainly unlike a movie, but something a bit in between. It's certainly a unique, never before used term too, which could pose an advantage.

Flow novel doesn't actually sound that bad, and it captures the experience of playing a VN reasonably well. I like it.

[Taleweaver]

I think "digital gamebook" is actually the term the greatest number of uninitiated people would understand correctly. However, as long as you're catering to the anime/manga crowd, I think you don't go wrong with calling our works visual novels. It's the term they're familiar with from their J-hobby.

[Cith]

For gamebook, the Wikipedia page makes it sound like a dying thing. Of course, there's no shame in reviving an old term, but it seems like an essential element of gamebooks are "choosing your adventure", which may not be representative of all visual novels.

Nah. Only a few years ago, gamebook adventures semi-revived this genre. Consequently there were a few articles written about IF, whether IF was the future of novels, and the such. The series (Gamebook Adventures) did incredibly well, much better than expected.

Also gamebooks aren't just Choose Your Own Adventure novels. They also incorporate, for example, RPG Gamebooks like the "Legion of Shadow", which need dice and stats. http://www.amazon.com/Destinyquest-Legi ... 1848765428
http://destinyquestinfinite.com/wp-cont ... shot-1.png

[Obscura]

I participated in a research seminar on forms of interactive media a few years ago and, interestingly enough, visual novels were called ebooks, which is actually a classification I'm kind of okay with. Although a distinction should probably be made for ones that have decision-making versus purely linear ones. Ebook games, maybe?

Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books are classified as gamebooks (even though I like to reserve that title for those books which need dice and have stats.) So maybe something along those lines?

I'm okay with this classification aswell, although many people won't be.

Argh, I totally missed this post earlier. My comment was redundant. ^^

I think "digital gamebook" is actually the term the greatest number of uninitiated people would understand correctly.

Yes, that's a great point. Having names that don't require further explanation is ideal. Otherwise as a creator you're not only explaining what your game is about, but the kind of thing it is. While this is fine for hobbyists and people who are already fans, but I'm going to say from a marketing standpoint, it's very difficult to try to explain what a VN is to people without losing people's focus on the actual VN you've made.

Again, I'm just speaking as somebody who is totally on the periphery of VNs, and pointing out things I've seen while trying to get people to check out my game. YMMV.

That wiki article on gamebooks also uses the term branching path books.

If there's any term that requires little explanation, I'd say this is a fairly good candidate. "Digital branching-path books" isn't pretty, but it seems self-explanatory. I'm guessing more people have at least a vague idea of what a "branching-path book" is, compared to visual novel (or gamebook), at least in the Western world. There's also some crossover potential for book lovers to become interested in branching-path books, just based on the name itself.

[Sharm]

I'm on the side of getting a new term if we can get enough people to agree to give it some traction. There's nothing about the name Visual Novel that says "this is something that you play on a computer and has interactivity". What it really sounds like is someone trying to reinvent a term for a graphic novel and when I talk about VNs to people (without explaining) that is the first conclusion they come to, the second one being that it's a digital comic book. There's also the problem with the few people who do know what a Visual Novel is tend to automatically jump to "those japanese porn games". This shuts down a lot of options in people's minds about what the genre could be, even if they do stick around long enough to know better. Look how often we get threads here asking if it's alright not to have anime style graphics.

I'm cool with Digitial Gamebook, Gamebook or Game Novel but Digital Game Novel seems best to me because it has everything you need to understand what you'd be getting without context. The name Gamebook sounds just a little too childish to me, like something you'd get in a box of cereal or something. I think the "Digital" part of the name should be included to imply the computer and graphical nature of the genre, gamenovel or gamebook implies everything else and gives a sense that you will be reading most of the time. I think it's important to imply the reading amount. If the user knows the amount of text they're in for they'll be a lot happier with it when they give it a try.

I've never known what to think of with Kinetic Novel. To me the name reminds me of pinball or some of the X-men characters who derive their powers from kinetic energy. I don't really understand why we separate them out anyway, there's not much of a difference between a game with one choice and a game with no choices but they get completely different names for some reason.

[TrickWithAKnife]

Please allow me to shoot down your ideas, one at a time.

Stage novel - What? Like a screenplay?

Touch novel - Oh, so an ipad book?

Multimedia novel - But they are not always multimedia.

Branching multimedia novels - Like the above, but more long-winded.

Graphic novel - These are already a thing.

Web comic - Already a thing.

Choiceless visual novel - Sounds a bit dull, Like visual novels, but less.

Single-Path Visual Novel - Quite a mouthful.

Guided Visual Novel - See above. Plus it sounds like it's a VN with autohelp for the choices.

ADV (adventure) games - This is something else.

OELVN - Not clear what it means unless you already know VN, making it pointless.

Digital Narrative - Not so clear what it is.

Interactive Story - Could mean a number of things.

Digital play - Sounds like something else.

Flow novel - What does that even mean?

Digital gamebook - Not so terrible, but a little misleading in some cases.

Digital Game Novel - Descriptive terms, duct-taped together. They aren't always games.

Digital branching-path books - It's more of a description than a catchy name.

If you have to explain to a VN community what the name means, it's not ideal.

[Wissa]

I think VN is already well established and can't be changed. However, I can imagine that kinetic novel writers might be a little dissatisfied with that term, as I am.
I propose Screen Novel (not screen narrative, that would be film). I think it implies the visual and multimedia text aspects of it, while also differentiating it from an ebook.
I'm also kind of partial to the term Stage Novel, as I think the elements of a VN/KN are stage-like. They can involve real (voice) actors, music, backgrounds, characters who appear and exit, and are generally dialogue based. Still like Screen Novel better.

[Obscura]

Please allow me to shoot down your ideas, one at a time.

Despite its intended purpose, I really appreciate you put together this list for us!

Interactive Story - Could mean a number of things.

Looking at all of them, this is definitely my favorite. (What's funny is that I actually used this exact phrase during my campaign...and completely forgot I did.)

It's not perfect, but I think it gives a sense of what vns are about, especially since it emphasizes the "story" element of VNs.

Out of all of the terms listed, I would say your average computer-literate person in the West can get a gist of what "interactive stories" are from the name alone.

[2dt]

OH MY GOD TWO PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE IDEAS THAT I'VE PROPOSED. FUCK YEAH.

Flow novel doesn't actually sound that bad, and it captures the experience of playing a VN reasonably well. I like it.

Good to hear I'm not the only one who thought that way.

I'm also kind of partial to the term Stage Novel, as I think the elements of a VN/KN are stage-like. They can involve real (voice) actors, music, backgrounds, characters who appear and exit, and are generally dialogue based. Still like Screen Novel better.

YES. One person liked one of my original ideas. I'm a sucker for simple clean names if it isn't already obvious. Screen Novel ain't too bad either. Problem is the very first thing I thought of when you mentioned it was "some sort of screenplay".

[Tempus]

Multimedia novel - But they are not always multimedia.

Yes they are. The novel, visual art, music, etc. are mediums. Bring two or more of those together and it's multimedia.

I have a request for this thread: When proposing a new term, don't just put the name out there, please also add an explanation of why the new term is so much better than "visual novel" that it justifies the large amount of effort required to switch terms. [...]

Basically, I think the chance that this thread is going to achieve a change in term is pretty small, and I don't want it turning into a poll or forum game.

Without a defined goal and criteria for achieving that goal, nothing will happen. My consistent experience with team meetings is that without a strong chairperson nothing gets done. Someone always ends up unhappy, but clearly some people are already unhappy with currently terminology. However, without someone guiding discussion things will go nowhere. Unfortunately, people who want to be in charge of things are usually the least equipped to do so. After participating in it and watching it grow, I now agree the chance this thread will achieve anything long term is minimal.

[TrickWithAKnife]

There would have to be a pretty outstanding name to make changing the current definition worthwhile.
The term "visual novel" is not exclusive to this community.

Before suggesting a name, ask yourself these three questions:

1. Is it obvious what this name refers to, but still catchy?

2. Is it worth confusing people and communities who already use the term "visual novel"?

3. Is your main motivation for suggesting a new name for the ego stroke of having something you thought of become standard. Be honest with yourself.

An accurate description does not automatically make a suitable name.

[Laniessa]

Oh, I like the term 'Flow Novel', but it's pretty. Not very descriptive. If the goal is to change VNs to a more easily-understood name, FN doesn't really help much, even if it makes sense to me.

Gamebook is alright, but having the 'book' part makes it feel too tangible. (Also, it's a bit touchy since quite a few people don't feel VNs are a game, but that's beside the point.)

I'm all up for changing the name of Kinetic Novel though, since pretty much anything would make more sense than it does at the moment. (It took me a while to actually find what the definition of KN was.)

Screen Novel doesn't sound too bad, but ah, I immediately thought of 'computer screen' novel at first, which works, in a sense? But I get the feeling you were trying to go for 'screenplay' feel. Stage Novel doesn't sound so bad - anyone gave thought to 'Staged Novel' instead? /go shoot the idea down sorry

[Wissa]

Yeah, Flow Novel does not work, because all novels and narratives are supposed to flow. It would be like calling it a Structured Novel.

Screen Novel doesn't sound too bad, but ah, I immediately thought of 'computer screen' novel at first, which works, in a sense? But I get the feeling you were trying to go for 'screenplay' feel.

Computer screen was what I was going for. What other medium can a VN/KN possibly exist on? Screenplay is a secondary connotation that I find fitting as well. I think the term novel is what can really differentiate it from a screenplay, because although the content of a play can easily be directly transferred to a movie, the novel is still something that is read and not just watched. 'Screen Novel' still doesn't quite excite me too much, but I like it more than kinetic. Heck, you can transform any novel into a kinetic novel by throwing it across the room. Now that I think about it, 'VN' more suits the kinetic novel while 'KN' more suits the visual novel, because interaction implies movement. The world is upside down, what can you do.

In my ideal world, the kinetic novel would automatically fall under VN, because that is what it is, at the very least, the bare bones of a VN. The VN (as it is) would be called something like an IVN, interactive visual novel. I could possibly see that clearing up a lot of the confusion around what a VN actually is, for those outside the niche. Maybe regular gamers won't accept it as a game, but it's still an interactive story, and your game-aspect milage may vary.

Mmm, changed my mind. I like Stage Novel best (for a KN), because it sounds more exciting, the word 'stage' is more accessible than 'kinetic,' and plays don't branch out.

[LRH]

Computer screen was what I was going for. What other medium can a VN/KN possibly exist on?

Funnily enough, my first introduction to visual novels was actually through a television set top box, back in the very early 90s. My family were part of a test group for many of the features people take for granted on their cable set top boxes today, and the test I was part of included games and visual novels adapted to the set top box. I could use the left, right, up, and down buttons, and the enter/ok button to move through the story. So, in theory at least, they can exist on modern set top boxes, and therefore on TVs.

I remember these being my favorite feature of the test box, and I'm still very disappointed that no-one is utilizing this possibility in their set top boxes - it offers another way for game distributors to get exposure, and could easily be integrated into pay-per-play systems, since many companies already have pay-per-view options, or integrated as a subscription option that allows you unlimited access to a library of games as long as you've paid a monthly subscription fee.

Visual novels have also been included as extra features on childrens' DVDs, again opening the possibility of a VN/KN being used on a medium other than a computer.

Cool, huh?

[Wissa]

I was actually anticipating that answer, to which I say, still (digital) screens, pretty much the same thing. But yeah, there are loads of different avenues to distribute these kinds of things.