Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

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Lady-Cynic
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Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#1 Post by Lady-Cynic »

Sorry if the question is very vague, but I don't know how phrase it without going into extreme detail.

Anyways, for some time now, I've been thinking about making a text based RPG with minimal graphics that are based on a bunch of random text battles between a friend and I. What I want is for the player to customize their sprites and then battle other online players in text battles. I know there's a battle engine that I could use, but that's against computer enemies and I'm not sure if it can be applicable with RL players. My question is, could Ren'Py theoretically do this? I'm still pretty new to the world of coding (so far only know basic python Orz), but it seems that the only way to do this is with HTML, which seems waaaaaay out of my range. I'm hoping Ren'py can do it instead, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, how would I upload it to the Internet? I know there's some platforms I could use, but not sure what would be the best. Or could I make it as a standalone game that connects to the Internet instead? I definitely need to do more research.

Thanks for any help in advance.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#2 Post by xela »

You'd have to rewrite too much in Ren'Py to get it done so it'd be close to absurd. There is no reason that you cannot code an online game in Python (think Eve Online), it'd just be a really good idea to keep Ren'Py out of it. HTML5 shouldn't really be "out of your range" if Python is within it.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#3 Post by Lady-Cynic »

Hmm I was seriously hoping I could use Ren'Py but I guess not. I wouldn't say Python is within my range but rather my eyesight, but that's another discussion all together. I've never heard of Eve Online (yay, more research -p-) but if just plain old Python could be sied then I guess I could do it (maybe, hopefully). I'm still really hesitant about HTML, but maybe I'll give it a try. Thanks for answering. L
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#4 Post by trooper6 »

Could you use Twine? I don't know Twine very well, but it is used to make browser games.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#5 Post by Lady-Cynic »

trooper6 wrote:Could you use Twine? I don't know Twine very well, but it is used to make browser games.
Just checked it out and it's not exactly what I'm looking for (though it's a good thing to know if I ber want to post any of my VN or KN onto the web). What I'm looking for is something that will allow interaction between IRL players so they can battle. Back to the drawing board I guess.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#6 Post by xela »

Read this (and search for similar sites): http://buildnewgames.com/real-time-multiplayer/

It's more difficult than creating a complex Ren'Py project, but not by much. You'd have to rent a server/use some free one/run your own PC 24/7 but the latter two are not very good choices and I don't expect it to be very expensive. I never tried creating an online multilayer game myself so I can't give any concrete advice I am afraid.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#7 Post by fluxus »

It sort of depends on your ambition level I think.

But you also need to put HTML into perspective. HTML is not hard. HTML is a couple of tags for headlines, text, hyperlinks and images thrown together to make those things appear nicely on a webpage.
*After* that people have been throwing together PHP, ASP, CSS, Java, JavaScript and many other things in order to make HTML do all sorts of stuff it was never meant to do in the first place.

So if you're thinking, "Boy, HTML&CSS&JavaScript&PHP&ASP&Java" looks hard, then you're absolutely right, because that things a mess.
HTML in itself though, that one's easy. Much simpler than Ren'Py.

Now, back to the ambition level:
If all you want is to have you and a friend connect to each other by ip-address or something like that, then probably you could do that with Python, which has extensive libraries for such a thing.
And then you could let in-game events be dependent and what you both did - player1 chooses 'fight', player2 chooses 'magic', and consequences unfold - and if such a game is fine, I think it should be doable.

On the other hand, if you want strangers to be able to connect, you'll need to write a server program.
If you plan on a lot of players, you'll need to write a good dispatcher to tell a bunch of servers to deal with the info. And plan on a strategy for dealing with overload and such.

Eve Online was written in a variant of Python, Iron Python Stackless Python (thanks for the correction), which was optimized for dealing with something that enhanced responsiveness - something with thread support, I think.

There might be an game engine somewhere that'd let you write something like you want.. but aside from looking for one such, also try following a python tutorial for connecting two computers over a network.

Edit: Xela's approach sounds good too. That is one nice-looking tutorial for a web-based game.
xela wrote:Read this (and search for similar sites): http://buildnewgames.com/real-time-multiplayer/
Edit 2: Asceai is right, sorry.. Iron Python is Python for .Net, which is quite another thing.
Last edited by fluxus on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#8 Post by Asceai »

Eve Online uses Stackless Python on the backend, but the client is written in C++. I don't think anyone would ever recommend you use Ren'Py as the backend server for your game =P

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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#9 Post by Lady-Cynic »

xela wrote:Read this (and search for similar sites): http://buildnewgames.com/real-time-multiplayer/

It's more difficult than creating a complex Ren'Py project, but not by much. You'd have to rent a server/use some free one/run your own PC 24/7 but the latter two are not very good choices and I don't expect it to be very expensive. I never tried creating an online multilayer game myself so I can't give any concrete advice I am afraid.
Thanks for the link; I'm gonna see if I can absorb as much information from it as possible. I did not think about the servers, so thanks for bringing it up. Granted, I have to do even more research with it now, but whatevs.
fluxus wrote:It sort of depends on your ambition level I think.

But you also need to put HTML into perspective. HTML is not hard. HTML is a couple of tags for headlines, text, hyperlinks and images thrown together to make those things appear nicely on a webpage.
*After* that people have been throwing together PHP, ASP, CSS, Java, JavaScript and many other things in order to make HTML do all sorts of stuff it was never meant to do in the first place.

So if you're thinking, "Boy, HTML&CSS&JavaScript&PHP&ASP&Java" looks hard, then you're absolutely right, because that things a mess.
HTML in itself though, that one's easy. Much simpler than Ren'Py.
...
On the other hand, if you want strangers to be able to connect, you'll need to write a server program.
If you plan on a lot of players, you'll need to write a good dispatcher to tell a bunch of servers to deal with the info. And plan on a strategy for dealing with overload and such.

Eve Online was written in a variant of Python, Iron Python, which was optimized for dealing with something that enhanced responsiveness - something with thread support, I think.

There might be an game engine somewhere that'd let you write something like you want.. but aside from looking for one such, also try following a python tutorial for connecting two computers over a network.
Just started researching HTML, and yeah, it's much easier than I expected (it's all those add-ons that are confusing the holy hell out of me).

Also, I'm sadly an over ambitious person, so I want the game to be able to connect between strangers. Not like a MMORPG, but like small time ORPG. I've never heard of Iron Python, but it definitely seems worth checking out (to the Internet I go!). Not sure where to start though, so I'll just look into the link that xela gave me. Hopefully it shall bear some fruit that I can use.
Asceai wrote:Eve Online uses Stackless Python on the backend, but the client is written in C++. I don't think anyone would ever recommend you use Ren'Py as the backend server for your game =P
Ah yes, another thing to look into. Not touching C++ though; now that is definitely confusing.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#10 Post by SundownKid »

To be honest, it won't be worth it to do online multiplayer. The potential audience playing at the same time for the vast majority of indie games, even well known ones, is too low to support a multiplayer base. Even if you gave it away for free. Even multi-million dollar AAA games struggle to keep online multiplayer active. It's a better idea to just have local multiplayer if any.

Basically only a fraction of a fraction of the people who bought your game will be playing online at any given time, unless you somehow organize a game session yourself.

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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#11 Post by xela »

SundownKid wrote:It's a better idea to just have local multiplayer if any.
It might not be hard at all to rig Ren'Py to work with local multi... but he asked for online support.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#12 Post by Asceai »

What's the difference between local multiplayer and online multiplayer? You can rely on there not being a firewall/NAT between you (meaning you don't really need a server) and you can do multicast which can make it easier to find the other players without a server.. but fundamentally there's not that much difference.

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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#13 Post by xela »

Asceai wrote:What's the difference between local multiplayer and online multiplayer? You can rely on there not being a firewall/NAT between you (meaning you don't really need a server) and you can do multicast which can make it easier to find the other players without a server.. but fundamentally there's not that much difference.
LoL I guess there isn't a fundamental difference in there, it's just that I've once seen a mock-up python code that was claimed by author to be working with Ren'Py and never seen/heard one that worked online. But it both should be doable without too much fuss I suppose, by a dedicated coder.
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Re: Could Ren'Py be used for an interactive online RPG?

#14 Post by Lady-Cynic »

SundownKid wrote:To be honest, it won't be worth it to do online multiplayer. The potential audience playing at the same time for the vast majority of indie games, even well known ones, is too low to support a multiplayer base. Even if you gave it away for free. Even multi-million dollar AAA games struggle to keep online multiplayer active. It's a better idea to just have local multiplayer if any.

Basically only a fraction of a fraction of the people who bought your game will be playing online at any given time, unless you somehow organize a game session yourself.
The game isn't to be bought. Should've stayed that it'll be a free game. The main problem of keeping it local is then I wouldn't be able to use it seeing as I won't be near the vicinity of any of my friends and I highly doubt anyone at my soon to be college will know about I game I just invented (maybe in due time, but not right away).
xela wrote:
Asceai wrote:What's the difference between local multiplayer and online multiplayer? You can rely on there not being a firewall/NAT between you (meaning you don't really need a server) and you can do multicast which can make it easier to find the other players without a server.. but fundamentally there's not that much difference.
LoL I guess there isn't a fundamental difference in there, it's just that I've once seen a mock-up python code that was claimed by author to be working with Ren'Py and never seen/heard one that worked online. But it both should be doable without too much fuss I suppose, by a dedicated coder.
That is something I never knew, but I'm a bit unsure how to do that...
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