Would you play games like these?

[Akai85]

The game ideas I come up with are not normal - in fact, they are so far removed from normal that sometimes I wonder exactly how I came up with them.

So here are a few of my game idea synopses. I came up with all these in the last week and a half cause of some crazy huge inspiration burst. These definitely aren't all of my ideas... yeah, let's not get into that lol.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone would actually play weird shit like this so let me know if you would be interested.

Get the girl out of the bag!

Hi there. Nice to meet you. My name is Daphne.

I’m just your average 15 year old girl with a bag on her head.

I don’t like people… that is, except for my two best friends, Ken and Samuel.

Even though all three of us are good friends we don’t always get along. Samuel can send me into system shock with his caffeinated energy and Ken can leave me feeling colder than an ice-cube with his subtle put-downs.

Actually, when I put it like that, it sounds like we shouldn’t even be friends. We are, though. Best friends.

We live our lives in a happy balance as the seasons move around us. That’s the way it’s been and the way it will always be.

That’s what I thought anyway. But in this… this… g-game!-

THEY TRY AND TAKE MY BAG AWAY.

WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT.

WHY.

Anyway, I love my bag so please don’t play this game <3

Never, ever play it.

Cut, wrong line!

“I told you, I’ve seen this movie before! I know exactly how this scenario goes so what the hell do you think you’re doing?!”

It’s a game of a type… It defies description.

Ahem. You are a member of the F.B.I and a stellar dodgeball player. Your target is the principal of a public high school.

You’ve faced down bullets, shark guns and freeze rays but can you handle high school?

Working Cast:

You: A rugged, tough, athletic guy with a hard shell and an even harder centre with an integrated self-defense system. You carry no less than seven blades at any given time. You are a very thoughtful gift-giver. You are P.T.Raviolli, man on a mission.

The guy that knows stuff about movies: The kind of kid you’d beat up back in high-school, he never (ever) shuts up. It would be very irritating if you felt emotions but you don’t because emotions are for the weak. For some reason, he’s gotten attached to you. Despite your obvious difference in skill shaking him is about as hard as disguising yourself as a convincing heavily-pregnant woman. And yes, you’ve tried that. It was hard.

The future babe: She’s really into you. This isn’t a surprise because you’ve always been popular with women. Unfortunately she’d be better off with the film-geek because you’ve never been fond of children. Come to think of it, you’ve never been fond of women either. Or anything at all, really. Fondness is for wimps.

Rogue Sue Survival

I’m a Sue. Mary Sue.

“Margaret Marigold Marabeth Sue” if you want to be technical about it.

I used to be a Purity Sue filled with incorruptible goodness.

All I wanted was to be happy and share that happiness with others.

Sadly, I’m a Sue and the world wants us dead. Pure just ain’t gonna cut it anymore.

I don’t expect I’ll survive long. They already got my friend, Peta-chan. There’s a history behind that name but I don’t think I’ll be around long enough to tell the tale. I’ll be damned though if I ain’t gonna give it a shot.

The world thinks that we’re out to get them, that we want to take over. Who knew the powers of propaganda could defeat the powers of Sue? Not that I can actually use my powers in this godforsaken world.

That’s how it is. I might be a Sue but if you’re expecting a happy fluffy story you won’t find one here. Instead you’ll find a story about a girl adapting to the challenges of living in a new world and taking revenge on every single last fucking creature in it for their many appalling crimes.

I’m a Sue gone rogue and my next target is you.

Sadism and Company.

I’m a sadist and recently I’ve been struggling with the question, “What exactly is a sadist?”

How far do you have to go to be a sadist? Conversely how little will earn you the label? Will I face the same kind of challenges other sadists face? Or, entirely new ones? And then… there’s the question:

What kind of sadist am I?

This is a game about relationship-building and how you act will make or break those relationships.

You have to be aware of the decisions you make and be conscious of the effects they’ll have on people. Though you see relationships as a convenient way to indulge your inner sadist you might be getting more than you asked for…

(A p-g rated sadistic game with no sex, smut, extreme violence or gore. A story about self-discovery, acceptance and feels.)

Note that my views and whatever are not my character's views. I promise I'm perfectly harmless and not at all dangerous

[RotGtIE]

Take all of my money.

[Akai85]

Should I set up a donor account?

If you're interested you can see a bit about the sadism game here : (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 16&t=29438) I included the prologue but all the fun stuff happens later... when I finish the 6 individual character prologues I'll post them since they should be fairly safe spoiler-wise.

[Heartstrings]

Yes.
My answer is yes.
To all of them.

Seriously, though, these are all very intriguing ideas and you have a very stimulating style of writing. Your ideas are pretty refreshing in that they are very different than the premise of most VNs beating a dead horse with a slightly new stick. I would totally read any or all of these.

[trooper6]

Let's See. Would I play...

Get the Girl Out the The Bag: I would not play this game because the girl told me not to and heavily implied that playing this game would be about me forcing her to so something she doesn't want. And that feels like it is a trap about non-consentuality for the player. So, if the Girl says playing the game will cause her trauma and that I shouldn't play the game...I won't play the game. I think explorations of issues of consent and game culture would be really interesting, but the set up/marketing for this game tells me the only way to "win" (i.e. not be a terrible person) is to not play at all.

Cut, wrong line!: The marketing for this concept is mostly turning me off...also the high school setting. However, if the marketing for this game makes it clear that this is an exploration and a critique of toxic masculinity rather than an upholding of it, then I'd be very interested in the game. Basically, while there are indications the politics of this game would be in line with mine, I'd need a few more indications that this is the case before I'd jump in.

Rogue Sue Survival: Sounds fun! Yes.

Sadism and Company.: Sounds provocative and interesting. Yes.

I like challenging and interesting strange ideas. I just want to make sure that there are thoughtful critiques rather than thoughtless celebration.

[Akai85]

Let's See. Would I play...

Get the Girl Out the The Bag: I would not play this game because the girl told me not to and heavily implied that playing this game would be about me forcing her to so something she doesn't want. And that feels like it is a trap about non-consentuality for the player. So, if the Girl says playing the game will cause her trauma and that I shouldn't play the game...I won't play the game. I think explorations of issues of consent and game culture would be really interesting, but the set up/marketing for this game tells me the only way to "win" (i.e. not be a terrible person) is to not play at all.

Cut, wrong line!: The marketing for this concept is mostly turning me off...also the high school setting. However, if the marketing for this game makes it clear that this is an exploration and a critique of toxic masculinity rather than an upholding of it, then I'd be very interested in the game. Basically, while there are indications the politics of this game would be in line with mine, I'd need a few more indications that this is the case before I'd jump in.

Rogue Sue Survival: Sounds fun! Yes.

Sadism and Company.: Sounds provocative and interesting. Yes.

I like challenging and interesting strange ideas. I just want to make sure that there are thoughtful critiques rather than thoughtless celebration.

Okay, my responses:

- Get the girl out of the bag: You're right, actually - I didn't think about issues of consent and stuff. Still while the premise may sound inconsiderate the objective of the game is to make the girl realise that the world is an amazing place outside of her room/bag. The events are orchestrated to argue "look this is great, why don't you try joining in?" The two guys involved merely care about their childhood friend and want to help her. Though it is interesting I never saw it from your perspective, I'll be careful not to make anything read as skeevy.

- Cut, wrong line: The marketing, huh... It's a satire. Also the game isn't actually about what it indicates it's about but about a dangerous individual with an unhealthy obsession. The main character is meant to seem ultra-masculine but not in a dudebro way more in an I am stoic and huge and uninterested in distractions kind of way. You never bash any school kids up - I am anti-bullying. And you never hook up with the aforementioned school girl and her own attentions in you might be... well, I won't spoil anything. It's not an exploration and critique of toxic masculinity but toxicity in a high school setting... I think. Anyway, since I've never written anything "manly" before I will make sure to be very careful about the tones and implications by doing so. I've also never been to America or a public school so I was kinda going off high school movies too.

I'm glad you're interested in the two other ideas! Trust me, I'm not trying to be gimmicky, I just have a nature of thinking "what if...". What if instead of romancing multiple people you romance the same person multiple times? How would that work? Alternate realities? And so on. I don't know if you could call all of my ideas thoughtful critique but I try and make sure nothing toxic gets in there. Even if the ideas' theme and premise seem evident from the writing that usually isn't it - The game is usually focused the most on certain things that I can't bring up because spoilers. The first and third idea are pretty much as you see but the rest including ideas I haven't written about here have more onion layers to discover. So I would say because the concepts are the jumping off point I wouldn't write thoughtless celebration but as a writer it's hard to be completely objective and the truth is despite my intentions you never know how something will read. Luckily, there are people like you to point out what I might miss

(Still struggling with the idea of making the only crossdresser in a game do bad things - on the other hand there's another character who has an interest in it, but I don't know. For the crossdresser it's just a hobby in their quest to seek perfection meshing both masculine and feminine ideals - they've had surgery for plumper lips and other things but identify as a man and though preffering to dress as a woman will on occasion dress as a man. It's their own reaction to their thoughts on beauty but their interest in beauty can also be unconventional and damaging in ways that would require a spoiler tag. So... what do I do? The crossdressing is tied to the character but I don't want to imply anything. And then the fact that five love interests are male and one is female, does that reek of token lesbianism even if I indicate that the main character is interested in girls in other routes? Is it okay if I also have a fat love interest and an actual sadistic love interest and another love interest is the female love interests' fiancee or does it still read as pandering? Even if there aren't many girls at the school because of the way society is concerning women and jobs should I still make an effort to change it? There's also the fact that the majority of the characters in the game are male including side-characters. I know it's because I prefer to write males for whatever reason but still, should more of the side-characters be girls? A 3:2 ratio or less isn't exactly "good" is it? -- You see how much I struggle with this. I know a lot of readers might not care or notice (and a lot will) but I don't want to write something about a bisexual female character where the tone reads as vanilla straight normalness. I don't think the things I write are vanilla but as a writer it's hard to be objective and make decisions not because they are the norm or purely because you have an agenda but because they will enhance the product and add depth. I also freaking hate being preached to so I am definitely not saying I will do that. I want to be considerate of these things but they aren't the purpose of the game. Whew... sorry for the brick of wall text there!)

My sister was also the one who pointed out the evil crossdresser thing, I didn't realize myself and then I . This happened after she encourage me to make him trans and I was like "He isn't actually, though. And wouldn't that perpetuate the evil trans cliche?" and she was like "Then isn't making him crossdress also not good?" and I felt seriously confused/worried. It's not like I arbitrarily decided he would crossdress, that's just his thing and a part of his character and expression but now that I'm aware of the implications I have to consider them fairly.

Life as a creator of any media is difficult

[Akai85]

Here are two more ideas, not working on now but worried about the weirdness because these blow the others out of the water! (It's like I'm evolving into a weirder and weirder writer as I go. Yay?)

Data: Set/Mine

A game where you are an intangible data collection entity and you have evolved (devolved) into a blue, humanoid, genderless being with your abilities a fraction of what they were before. Taking this as an opportunity you head to the human preservation camp (which is less a camp and more a huge city. Also humans are endangered.) to mine data from them through direct interactions. The game focuses on gathering data through different means (sort of like an investigation game) and using the data to form relationships with different humans to learn more about them. There might be romance but it isn't the focus. If you try to manipulate people into liking you by obsessively digging up information on them and giving them presents it will not end well. It's a sort of meta commentary on manipulation in dating sims versus organic relationship growth in a sci-fi setting with aliens and flying objects. Also the data entity can't process data the way humans can - individual data is selected so characters will be seen as "collages" of data - A picture of an eye, a dress, a certain haircut but not a unified whole. So no hunky romance interests. And you can't watch tv because all you see is a rectangular object. And you have two consciences that are there to give you the perspective of typical "good" or "bad" human behaviour but you shouldn't always listen to them.

Oh man... that's honestly the weirdest idea I've ever had outside of my drabbles. Well, if you enjoy abstract art and collages you will love this.

One isn't enough:

This is... uh, hard to describe. Once upon a time a boy liked a girl. This boy wasn't good with people because he attracted disaster like a magnet. But the bog and girl liked each other. Then the girl died. This happened in an alternate dimension and that girl is the alternate version of you. The boy travelled across reality to find her again but strangely the girl died in all realities- some she was fine, but his accident-disease caused her to die. Now the boy has found you but he isn't the only one. Four alternate versions of him also found you. (Also one is a girl and visually she is my favourite character because she has a nose piercing. I like piercings.) You are a normal girl. One of the guys was brought by the first guy because he has amnesia and he thinks you can fix that. Two or less?/more? lost you because of the first guy and don't want you talking to him. Some will not want to get into a relationship with you because you are "not the same person" or because they're still dealing with their feelings of loss.

But this is a dating game and you will date one of them. Also they have the same superficialities (favourite foods) but their personalities and behaviour are distinct. You will for all intents and purposes be romancing five "different" people, who happen to be the same person. Explaining is hard...

(The best thing about this game is I can reuse the same sprite four times with minor alterations for clothing and gesture. Since I'm laz- have mediocre ar- a hobbyist this will really help me with production times! *shot*)

On second thought they are both the weirdest ideas I've ever had outside of the other weirdest ideas I've ever had. I think the "collages" and "alternate reality dating" is like just as weird as dating pidgeons if not weirder - No, dating pidgeons is definitely weirder. I can only hope the weirdness attracts people though I have my doubts about anyone wanting to interact with "collage-people." (Oh come on! Personality is more attractive than appearance, right?! Besides this way I have to do a lot less wor- *shot*)

The best thing about these is less sprite work. The worst thing is... marketing them.

[RotGtIE]

Get the Girl Out the The Bag: I would not play this game because the girl told me not to and heavily implied that playing this game would be about me forcing her to so something she doesn't want. And that feels like it is a trap about non-consentuality for the player. So, if the Girl says playing the game will cause her trauma and that I shouldn't play the game...I won't play the game. I think explorations of issues of consent and game culture would be really interesting, but the set up/marketing for this game tells me the only way to "win" (i.e. not be a terrible person) is to not play at all.

Cut, wrong line!: The marketing for this concept is mostly turning me off...also the high school setting. However, if the marketing for this game makes it clear that this is an exploration and a critique of toxic masculinity rather than an upholding of it, then I'd be very interested in the game. Basically, while there are indications the politics of this game would be in line with mine, I'd need a few more indications that this is the case before I'd jump in.

I don't mean to step on any toes but I have to completely disagree with your assessment of both of these premises on the grounds that they are very obviously being played for laughs. It should be abundantly clear that Akai is treating these ideas with a degree of silliness that makes it impossible to take them as attempts at making deep, serious sociopolitical commentary.

For fuck's sake, the first idea revolves around the preposterous notion of a girl who habitually wears a bag over her head. This is clearly not a moral dilemma about consent and trauma. The second one is similarly inviting us to have a laugh at a character who is about to enter into an environment whereby he will be forced out of his element and into circumstances which will most likely annoy him on a frequent basis for our amusement.

If you're looking for serious social commentary in plots which are obviously intended to be silly comedies, then I would have to accuse you of rather missing the forest for the trees. Isn't it well enough to let fun things be fun?

[trooper6]

If you're looking for serious social commentary in plots which are obviously intended to be silly comedies, then I would have to accuse you of rather missing the forest for the trees. Isn't it well enough to let fun things be fun?

Something being silly doesn't mean that it doesn't say something about social concerns....positive or negative.

I am not going to play a game that thinks it is silly or fun to rape people, for example. Or play a game that has lots of racism or homophobia...but it's just a joke bro. Conversely, one of the best regarded comedies "The Great Dictator" is full of social commentary.

The first concept as marketed, I certainly wouldn't play. Non-consent is not silly or funny to me.
The second concept I would play as long as I was certain the game was laughing at the toxic masculinity guy, not laughing with him. Because you can be silly in more than one way...in one way that lessens (or at least doesn't increase) oppression, or a way that increases oppression. I'd play the former, but not the latter.

[Obscura]

IMHO, it wouldn't matter to me what your concepts are. As a VN, it just has to have an art style that is unique or appealing. It could be the silliest concept in the world or the most serious. Everything that matters to me lies in the execution.

I recently read this short story. It was one of the most beautifully crafted pieces of writing I've ever had the pleasure to read.

It was called "Jealous Husband Returns in Form of Parrot." The premise is in the title. Silly concept yes, but it absolutely blew me away.

[Akai85]

If you're looking for serious social commentary in plots which are obviously intended to be silly comedies, then I would have to accuse you of rather missing the forest for the trees. Isn't it well enough to let fun things be fun?

Something being silly doesn't mean that it doesn't say something about social concerns....positive or negative.

I am not going to play a game that thinks it is silly or fun to rape people, for example. Or play a game that has lots of racism or homophobia...but it's just a joke bro. Conversely, one of the best regarded comedies "The Great Dictator" is full of social commentary.

The first concept as marketed, I certainly wouldn't play. Non-consent is not silly or funny to me.
The second concept I would play as long as I was certain the game was laughing at the toxic masculinity guy, not laughing with him. Because you can be silly in more than one way...in one way that lessens (or at least doesn't increase) oppression, or a way that increases oppression. I'd play the former, but not the latter.

I addressed this three posts ago so if possible I'd like to hear your opinion considering the new information/explanations I've added. I certainly don't want to offend anyone or perpetuate harmful writing practices so I appreciate hearing the opinions and perspectives of different people.

(Sometimes I will write something intending it to be offensive - but that's satirical black comedy, it's polarizing and nothing I post here will ever come close. Nothing I publish in any way, shape or form will come close if I can help it. And even in black comedy there are certain things I won't joke about. Besides, considering how offensive people can find things I rarely even use black comedy except for writing practice where I can feel free to be as brazenly rude and uncivilized as I please. And I get to swear a lot which is always fun )

[Akai85]

IMHO, it wouldn't matter to me what your concepts are. As a VN, it just has to have an art style that is unique or appealing. It could be the silliest concept in the world or the most serious. Everything that matters to me lies in the execution.

I recently read this short story. It was one of the most beautifully crafted pieces of writing I've ever had the pleasure to read.

It was called "Jealous Husband Returns in Form of Parrot." The premise is in the title. Silly concept yes, but it absolutely blew me away.

I agree with you... to an extent. I honestly could care less when I see flawless generic anime art for a game centering on yet another childhood friend slice of life story. I also find that in cases when the artist and the writer are the same person the art style indicates to an extent the writing approach of the writer. This is... hmmm... hard to articulate exactly but conventional art is more often paired with conventional stories than not. (Being really general here. Also not saying I don't like anime art!)

Ristorante Amore for example has quite nice art (and distinctive!) but I played it because of the twist I heard about when reading an lp. If I hadn't known about that twist I might not have played it because generally things have to catch my attention and hold it for me to play them. Either presentation wise as you've said, or concept/story-wise. I'm interested in Club Shuffle because of the art but that's not because I'm like "Ooooh, it's mah aesthetic" it's because it tells me a bit about the characters and tone of the game through visual distinction and variation without being bland generic pretty people same face, which I like. Games with a strong aesthetic will always attract an audience. Also concepts which are boring, gimmicky or offensive won't make me want to play the game.

Anyway, speaking of presentation, I'm working on the writing but this is my art thread: (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 54&t=29794). I know, I know, I'm working on it! I've got a loooooong way to go... (P.S. I love your art and downloaded your game and played Brad and Ian's route - it's pretty great.)

I would read that story. Actually I watched a movie about a girl's boyfriend who dies and reincarnates as a fly to kill his murdered who is trying to woo his girlfriend and it is pretty great.

[RotGtIE]

I am not going to play a game that thinks it is silly or fun to rape people, for example.

Sounds like you missed out on Sengoku Rance. To each his own, I suppose.

[gekiganwing]

Once upon a time a boy liked a girl. This boy wasn't good with people because he attracted disaster like a magnet. But the bog and girl liked each other. Then the girl died. This happened in an alternate dimension and that girl is the alternate version of you. The boy travelled across reality to find her again but strangely the girl died in all realities- some she was fine, but his accident-disease caused her to die. Now the boy has found you but he isn't the only one. Four alternate versions of him also found you. (Also one is a girl and visually she is my favourite character because she has a nose piercing. I like piercings.) You are a normal girl. One of the guys was brought by the first guy because he has amnesia and he thinks you can fix that. Two or less?/more? lost you because of the first guy and don't want you talking to him. Some will not want to get into a relationship with you because you are "not the same person" or because they're still dealing with their feelings of loss.

There was a comic called Mahoraba a few years ago about a guy falling in love with a girl with split personalities. It's not taken all that seriously, and it's not meant to be medically accurate.

Fiction about alternate worlds and realities is fascinating. Sometimes it's appropriate to focus on how it all works. At other times, it's fine to just say, "There's a parallel world. Please focus on the story."

- Get the girl out of the bag: ... Still while the premise may sound inconsiderate the objective of the game is to make the girl realise that the world is an amazing place outside of her room/bag. The events are orchestrated to argue "look this is great, why don't you try joining in?" The two guys involved merely care about their childhood friend and want to help her.

When I first saw the premise back in early December, I just thought, "Well, that's kinda offbeat." I don't usually spend much time thinking about the ramifications of fiction.

In the recent past, I remember seeing people have strong reactions to just the premise of Otometeki Koi Kakumei Love Revo. This is a story which the VNDB summarizes with the following: "The main character, Hitomi Sakuragawa, was once a cute, beautiful girl, winning beauty contests in childhood. However, after losing to the temptation of junk food received from fans, she has steadily gained weight… until she reached 100 kg in her second year of high school." Seeing all the negative comments was frustrating for three reasons. 1) No company talked about creating an official translation of the original game. 2) It took until 2012 for a fan translation to be created. 3) For a couple years, only its comics spinoff had a professional localization.

So yeah... What if you wrote a story in which the main character meets a girl who is uncomfortable with her health, and who is struggling with her latest diet? Or what if the story involved a male main character trying to lose weight? (One person tried to create a VN like this back during 2010.) Obviously, some people will dislike both stories. But are they less likely to provoke people to rant before reading them?

[trooper6]

So feedback.

Of the two new ideas, Data: Set/Match seems most interesting to me. It sounds like it would involve really different art and a different way of interacting. My most favorite so far. The Alternate realities...that could be good.

Now as for your question: I'd avoid the evil crossdresser and the evil trans person. Those are tropes with a long hurtful history. If the fellow identifies as a man and just wants to augment himself to be more of a blend, why would he dress as a woman? Why wouldn't he just wear gender neutral clothes like jeans and shirts? But, generally speaking if the only genderqueer figure you have in your game is evil...that isn't so great.