All About Sequels, Remakes, Uncut Versions

[monele]

The problem with that game is that H scenes pop-up among other scenes... and I'd like to show a full game or at least a big chunk of it. But I can't because I would have to suddenly say "uuuuh... I'll stop playing"... "why?" "Because!!"...... why? Because I've noticed it was turning into a H scene. That's pretty embarassing.

[F.I.A]

While it is harsh, I have to say that most of the time sequels, remakes and such are sort of a way to milk out from a merchandise. Or in a way - Feed the fans what they want. I stop keeping track the number of stuff that are tsukihime related right afterward. As Mikey worded it, I prefer a "The End" for my game.

Uncut/Lite: This is seen in most games even now. Apparently, the first product tends to be eroge to attract the players, only to be tweaked to all ages when the sales are nice enough to spread the story to other audiences(For example, Kanon. However, there is some exception, for example. Ever17, which from what I gathered starts as All age in PS2, then ported to PC with added bonus). Dang, I should stop posting late at night.

Sequel: Rather abundance, sequels can go with the same main character with an overused fruit knife or such...

Remake: Hardly seen in commercial games, since the players will demand top-notch graphics for their worth of money. However, there is still exception, such as Higurashi no naku koro ni(Remake in PS2 as Higurashi no naku koro ni: Matsuri), but it is very very rare.

My own opinion:

Uncut: A form of milking tool. Is it worth it for an artist to rework a partial part of his painting to please more audiences? I wonder...

Sequel: I accept sequels which are totally different, as in appears in a total unique environment. For example, Melty Blood right after Tsukihime. I will say no to a sequel which "branches from ending#5 of the original game".

Remake: The time gap needs to be something like 5 or more years for me not to be troubled.

What I will do for my own work: Sequel(In form of cameo) & Remake(Winter Shard is still unpolished).

[monele]

What about free games?... Since money is not the reason, is it still bad?

[Adorya]

While it is harsh, I have to say that most of the time sequels, remakes and such are sort of a way to milk out from a merchandise. Or in a way - Feed the fans what they want. I stop keeping track the number of stuff that are tsukihime related right afterward. As Mikey worded it, I prefer a "The End" for my game.

What "sort of stuff"?
If you mean remake, you only have the PLUS disk (1st fandisk) and Kagetsu Toya (2nd fan disk + new game). Tsuki Bako is a pack containing the Tsukihime, the PLUS disk and KT and was released because all were also out of print. I don't count the Moon/Sun release because of their old format (3"1/4 disk).

The others stuff I could think is the manga and the doujin games associated but this is part of any successfull game.

[F.I.A]

What "sort of stuff"?
If you mean remake, you only have the PLUS disk (1st fandisk) and Kagetsu Toya (2nd fan disk + new game). Tsuki Bako is a pack containing the Tsukihime, the PLUS disk and KT and was released because all were also out of print. I don't count the Moon/Sun release because of their old format (3"1/4 disk).

The others stuff I could think is the manga and the doujin games associated but this is part of any successfull game.

Hmm, pardon me about that earlier remark then for my ignorance. It seems like I garner some rather ill air towards tsukihime since that last chat, which goes something like:

F.I.A: Hmm, I am pretty much done with Tsukihime.
Friend A: I see. So what do you think about Ren?
F.I.A: Who Ren?
Friend A: You know, that cat girl?
F.I.A: I thought that girl is only in Melty Blood?
Friend A: She is there but nameless. More of her in Kagetsu Toya.
F.I.A: And that is?
Friend A: Uh, a sequel?

[papillon]

(There is no 'adult' version of ever17. IIRC one scene was added with a girl in a swimsuit for the PC version, but no sex.)

[BellosTheMighty]

Trust me, nothing annoys a player more then playing "Part I" of a story, and then "Part II" never shows up. Not only does this happen in freeware, it happens a lot more often because people lose interest or have to get a real job. I play both NWN Modules and Thief 2 Fan Missions off and on, and I can tell you, there are THOUSANDS of "Part I"s out there, and very few "Part II"s to go along with them. Those that make it to "Part III" of later are recipients of Divine Favor, or utterly and completely obsessed. My recommendation to anyone who wants to make a series is- don't start out doing that. Make the first part at least an individual story in itself, and then bring in the story arc if you make it to the later chapters.

[DaFool]

I'm interested to why usually, for VNs / movies / games, sequels are usually the result of fan popularity. It is only recently that they aim to make a series of these.

Unlike manga and anime and TV shows which are planned to be ongoing longrunning series from the very beginning.

Perhaps it's harder to pitch the latter, since no one likes a show cancelled? Not to mention a budget that has to be stretched further.

[monele]

Those that make it to "Part III" of later are recipients of Divine Favor, or utterly and completely obsessed.

Strangely, those who made complete sagas... and then did it again (Stephane Gagne, and uh... I don't remember who) made *very* spiffy things and got very popular. So... were they popular because they finished sagas?... or did they finish their sagas because they was a positive reply? Maybe a lot of "first parters" have just been discouraged because not enough people wanted the next part? *shrugs*

[papillon]

*sniff* my NWN mod part 3 was prevented from existing by my then-graphics card exploding and refusing to handle any 3d at all. by the time i could afford to replace it (i was VERY poor at the time) it had been so long i could barely remember what i was doing, and the NWN codebase had been changed repeatedly, and I figured few people cared anymore...


(The mod page still gets the occasional 'I want part 3!' post, but the rest of the posts are all complaining about how things don't work right with the fifty million changes to the codebase since then, so how I'm ever supposed to fix it, I don't know... )

[BellosTheMighty]

*sniff* my NWN mod part 3 was prevented from existing by my then-graphics card exploding and refusing to handle any 3d at all. by the time i could afford to replace it (i was VERY poor at the time) it had been so long i could barely remember what i was doing, and the NWN codebase had been changed repeatedly, and I figured few people cared anymore...


(The mod page still gets the occasional 'I want part 3!' post, but the rest of the posts are all complaining about how things don't work right with the fifty million changes to the codebase since then, so how I'm ever supposed to fix it, I don't know... )

That wasn't the Paladin Trilogy by any chance, was it? First part was "Dusk" and second was "Midnight", or something like that? I saw that in the Hall of Fame, it looked pretty good, but I never got around to it.

A pity it couldn't be finished- practically the only other good Paladin mod I found was "A Devotion to Darkness"...

[papillon]

nope, mine was a Bard series. starts with the player being summoned to a village of winged elves to perform for them, then slowly getting involved in local politics, then tragedy strikes, then I unfortunately never got to continue. Which was a pity, because I ahdn't gotten to the MAJOR plot twist which I was looking forward to seeing the reactions for...

[DaFool]

I seriously need to cut down on the number of characters I'm creating.

The issue here is dilution. Creating characters to participate in short stories are all well and fine, but I remember that the anime fandom is primarily character-driven. Heck, most of visual art fandom is. Bugs Bunny is iconic, Asuka is iconic. Now the overpopulation of cookie-cutter bishoujo in visual novels diluted the iconic-making potential of anime characters, but that doesn't mean that a strong character in a strong universe (it doesn't have to be a good story) can't become iconic. Look at Haruhi.

Why is this important? If you are the intellectual property owner of said iconic character, this could mean royalties in the form of anime adaptations, PS2 videogame ports, and character goods. Unless you are strictly anti-commercial, heck, why wouldn't a creator not want that?!

Now how does this tie in with the topic at hand? Generally, more exposure to a character increases the potential for that character to become iconic, especially if s/he has a unique design and personality, which is of course fleshed out in the work. That is why creators find it so much easier to work using existing characters in their existing universes -- these are their favorite characters, so naturally it would be easy working with them. It's like having a loyal stable of actors whom you, as the director, is guaranteed won't betray you for another studio.

Now here is the core issue: So we want more exposure to our character, but we don't want to seem as though we are milking our own franchise or whatever even before we have one! This would mean that:

* Our works must be serial and longer and follow an episodic structure (ek! epics! oh nos!). That means whatever short works that are 'complete' must still be open-ended enough to continue the story in the same universe.

Now I will have to reread this thread, but the gist of it seems to be that people don't like resurrecting characters and scenarios (i.e. "But he died in Chapter 5! How the heck can...")
But that shouldn't mean you can't reuse them, provided that
A.) They are agreeable characters to begin with for the reader's perspective
B.) They are actually one of the main characters from the original work, to guaranteed to be fleshed out already. (However, little sister characters are exempt -- see the case of Nanoha, who've had 3 anime series dedicated to her even though she just appeared briefly in the Triangle Hearts OVA.)
C.) The works must count as "all-new" or "mostly new". This is easy if your characters were originally based on personality rather than career. (It would be extremely difficult to reuse a character whose purpose was to serve a plot point -- You can have Asuka Langley star as a magical girl, but you can't have Sherlock Holmes become a mecha pilot or he will cease to be Sherlock Holmes)

What prompted me to spout another post is because I realized I was nearing 20 characters created and the logistics of their maintenance (They are like my 'actors' so to speak) is getting to be crazy. I am also bumping into the problem of a new character starts behaving like a previous character -- so might as well reuse that character, just with a wardrobe and role change.

If you are a good storyteller in terms of plot, this is no problem, since characters are only a means to an end. But your work won't get you those coveted anime adaptations, PS2 ports, and character goods just in case you were aiming for those

[Ivlivs]

DaFool >>> Never thought of it that way. I myself am very open to sequels and series, so long as each "episode" begins a situation and ends it while still leaving room for more to happen. Reusing characters is perhaps a bonus, but your situation must be new.

[monele]

Don't worry too much ... I'm at 80+ characters XD...

As for design... it's true that bishoujo characters are often too bland and similar... school uniforms *not* helping :/... I think people tend to forget about simple things such as color themes and adding a few unique touches. The "silhouette" recognizing technique also comes to mind.