Ideas Dump

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
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papillon
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Re: Ideas Dump

#346 Post by papillon »

So it should be the same case with your story character. Just because he is raised as a girl wouldn't change his sexual orientation and totally dreads marrying a guy. He'll be feminine (personality and behavior wise) though.
I'm aware of the most famous case. It was because of a hospital accident where they destroyed most of the baby's penis during circumcision and then tried to make up for it by turning him into a girl. Things did not end well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

However, if you bring real-world biology into it, ISTR there have been studies showing that for a boy, the more older brothers they have, the more likely they are to be gay. And I've heard anecdotally that many children who will eventually grow up to be gay displayed 'opposite-gender' behavior as a child, sometimes even proclaiming that they wish they *were* the opposite gender. Therefore, it's not completely implausible that the princess is happy as she is.

Or it might be that he absolutely hates being a girl, and will eagerly swap places with the PC and let *you* do all this marrying stuff.

Or it might be that she likes being a girl but is aware that she's not a 'proper' girl and is scared of what her future husband will think.

Or perhaps the other princes have decided to 'rescue' their 'brother'.

There's a lot of ways that story could go, but I know I don't currently have the time or the resources to pursue it.

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Re: Ideas Dump

#347 Post by JQuartz »

papillon wrote:ISTR there have been studies showing that for a boy, the more older brothers they have, the more likely they are to be gay.
Never really heard of this before but I've heard that the more gay brothers they have, the more likely they are to be gay.
papillon wrote:Therefore, it's not completely implausible that the princess is happy as she is.

Or it might be that he absolutely hates being a girl, and will eagerly swap places with the PC and let *you* do all this marrying stuff.

Or it might be that she likes being a girl but is aware that she's not a 'proper' girl and is scared of what her future husband will think.

Or perhaps the other princes have decided to 'rescue' their 'brother'.
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Re: Ideas Dump

#348 Post by monele »

Very fun concept :) Seems like it has room for equal fun and drama, though it sounds like it should be somewhat light-hearted... but maybe that's just me :3

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Re: Ideas Dump

#349 Post by DaFool »

papillon wrote:A dream I just had, which has potential for a story...

You are a handmaiden in service to a royal court, traveling with a delegation to a nearby kingdom because their princess has just turned 18, so delegations from all around are coming for a big gathering to evaluate the possibility of a marriage alliance.

Your prince decides he's not interested in this girl, so your delegation leaves early.

As you're traveling away, suddenly the army comes bearing down after you and arrests you all and drags you back. Apparently, the princess has mysteriously disappeared. And since you guys just left, you're the chief suspects.

You end up back at the gathering with suspicion everywhere, but being only a humble maid, no one's all that interested in you and you manage to sneak around and overhear an interesting secret. Apparently, the missing princess was born a boy. But since the king had way too many sons and no daughters, as soon as one of the toddlers started acting vaguely feminine, they pounced on him and raised him as a girl. No one's even sure if the princess knows she's a boy or not, she's been kept pretty secluded her whole life. (And you're not sure if she's physically a boy anymore, or if there's been magic used.)

So now it falls on you to find the princess! Was she kidnapped or did she run? Will you find her as a girl or a boy? What are the other royal delegations up to?

... and since that was my dream, I have NO IDEA what the answer is. :)
Where do you get all these good ideas? Your dream fairy is pretty darn competent!

This kind of mystery would be a blast to play, but potentially hard to program -- not because of the mechanics (simple VN paths would do fine) but because of logistics. Basically you have maid who's granted limited access in a foreign castle (to better serve all guests, which includes your prince, who's still treated as a royal guest despite being under house arrest), you need a map of the places you can go and 'overhearing event triggers' where you catch random whispers while doing your duty (i.e. going from kitchen to diningroom).

Perhaps you can map out all the overhearing event triggers and make it so that if triggers >= certain number, your maid can either tell her prince or take action by herself, with various consequences. So while the first part would be limited freeform play, the second part has some really nasty choice->consequence gameplays. Heck, you can even have 99% of the game like this without even encountering the princess.
There's a lot of ways that story could go, but I know I don't currently have the time or the resources to pursue it.
It's never too late for an idea like this. If you're willing to delegate graphical, music, and some (not all) writing aspects, ring me up when 2010 swings by :D .

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Re: Ideas Dump

#350 Post by Showsni »

But since the king had way too many sons and no daughters, as soon as one of the toddlers started acting vaguely feminine, they pounced on him and raised him as a girl.
That bit seems pretty unlikely, though. Royal families can never have too many sons. If anything, it would be the other way around; male heirs were much more desirable than daughters in olden days.

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Re: Ideas Dump

#351 Post by sake-bento »

Showsni wrote:
But since the king had way too many sons and no daughters, as soon as one of the toddlers started acting vaguely feminine, they pounced on him and raised him as a girl.
That bit seems pretty unlikely, though. Royal families can never have too many sons. If anything, it would be the other way around; male heirs were much more desirable than daughters in olden days.
Unless the neighboring kingdom also only had males, in which case someone needs a princess so they can set up a marriage.

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Re: Ideas Dump

#352 Post by papillon »

Showsni wrote:
But since the king had way too many sons and no daughters, as soon as one of the toddlers started acting vaguely feminine, they pounced on him and raised him as a girl.
That bit seems pretty unlikely, though. Royal families can never have too many sons. If anything, it would be the other way around; male heirs were much more desirable than daughters in olden days.
There's no reason one can't have a fantasy world in which daughters are more desirable than sons. Especially in a game designed for a female PC - why NOT have women be much higher-status than in real history? It's a fantasy! :)

Even without making things matriarchical it's easy to set up traditions where a daughter becomes necessary. Maybe in this world you traditionally pass on the kingdom to your daughter and her husband. You raise the daughter to love her home and know all about it, and you raise the sons to be adventurous and questing and go find a new home and win it by winning the girl attached to it.

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Re: Ideas Dump

#353 Post by PyTom »

Even without making things matriarchical it's easy to set up traditions where a daughter becomes necessary. Maybe in this world you traditionally pass on the kingdom to your daughter and her husband. You raise the daughter to love her home and know all about it, and you raise the sons to be adventurous and questing and go find a new home and win it by winning the girl attached to it.
A reasonable justification for this is that the idea that the prince is responsible for managing the kingdom, and so we want to ensure that the kingdom gets the most successful guy possible. So instead of limiting the pool to a half-dozen princes, we allow it to expand to all the generals, businessmen, etc in the kingdom and neighboring ones. And the princess has the massive responsibility of picking...
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Re: Ideas Dump

#354 Post by gekiganwing »

This thread has been getting epic with all the trap!princess talk.

One quick thought today: I'd be rather interested in ren'ai games which feature characters who are adults, and clearly done with school. Need ideas on where to start? You can look to "Honeymoon Salad" (info about the manga here: http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=2659 ) or "Yume wo Mou Ichido" (info about the 18+ otome game here: http://forum.my-neoromance.com/index.php?showtopic=201 ) for some inspiration. Or drop by a library and browse fiction shelves.
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Re: Ideas Dump

#355 Post by papillon »

This is my cue to waggle my eyebrows mysteriously and hint that someone is working on a game which involves characters who are no longer in school...

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Re: Ideas Dump

#356 Post by Der Tor »

ok so i am gonna dump an idea here...

A few days ago i was talking with my wife and i realized something. She has an illness - and yet again she doesn#t have an illness - as the cause of her illness is psychological. For example if she is in a good mood - she is fine. But if she is in a bad mood she starts to think that she has that illness and the more she thinks that way the more the symptoms manifest themselves.

I actually allready dedicated two episodes of my comic strip to that see:
http://www.no-neets.de/images/no9e.jpg
http://www.no-neets.de/images/no22.jpg

So the more she thinks she has an illness the more her symptoms manifest (she doesn't actually have an illness though but she thinks she does and she than actually gets physical symptoms and suffers from them).

But it took my some time to figure out that the CAUSE of her illness is psychological as the SYMPTOMS where PHYSILOGICAL.

After i figured that out i relized that it is the same with other things too. Even with myself. Often times when i was affraid of something, the more i was affraid the more the situation deteriarated even though i wasn't in any danger originally. Where as at other times i was in grave danger - but i wasn't affraid at all - and so nothing happened. My point is that our thoughts and attitudes can dictate the outcome just as well as our actions can. Maybe even to the pint of actually changing the situation or even changing reality.

And i think this would be something very interesting to use in a visual novel. There are allready some examples for that. For example there was one VN (forgott the name) where you where waiting for the girl to return. If you didn't give up hope - she returned on time to your date and all was fine. If you gave up hope - you found out that she had allready died a few years back.

So my idea is to make a game where you have severall such choices and depending on your choices the situation changes. Like for example if you think the girl is an evil yandere girl - she ends up stabing you. And if you think she is an angel she turns out to be an angel :mrgreen:

If anybody of you guys is interested in exploring this we could work on it together or i would at least offer my support. 8)

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Re: Ideas Dump

#357 Post by gekiganwing »

I'll be waiting to see what all-charas-over-21 story appears...

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Re: Ideas Dump

#358 Post by Blue Lemma »

papillon wrote:This is my cue to waggle my eyebrows mysteriously and hint that someone is working on a game which involves characters who are no longer in school...
Characters + not in school = does not compute *brain sizzle*

I do think it would be interesting to have a ren'ai VN set in the more adult world, though. I've thought of making one myself, but stopped myself with thoughts of the other things I have yet to finish : -x
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Re: Ideas Dump

#359 Post by LVUER »

Der Tor wrote:And i think this would be something very interesting to use in a visual novel.
Private Nurse, it's also a VN that tell a story about a young boy who suffers a psychological illness. He really believes himself that he has an incurable illness that he almost kill himself several times in the course of game. Of course it's ... oops, I don't want to be a spoiler, so perhaps you should play it yourself. It's a great game ^_^

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Re: Ideas Dump

#360 Post by gekiganwing »

Today's crazy idea: "The gutter -- can it work in visual novels?" Long post is really long. :D Sorry.

First, it's important to understand what a "gutter" is. In this article on Wikibooks -- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Creative_Writing/Comics -- there's a summary of Scott McCloud's _Understanding Comics_, including his definition of 'the gutter' in comic book terms. Scroll down to the Chapter 3 part to read it.

According to the author, comics would not be the same if there were no gaps between panels. McCloud is also equating breaks between panels with the split-second gaps that divide individual frames of any film, TV show, or animation. (Elsewhere in the book, he states that if you break down filmed media into frames, it would be like reading a slow-paced comic.)

So how does this apply to VNs? Well, let's think about what users see and experience in visual novels:

Typical VN: there is a still image, with dialogue or narration below it. There is rarely any animation. In a pro VN, the dialogue is spoken until the player pushes a button.

Words-over-image style VN: in Kana Little Sister and quite a few of the doujin games that were fan translated by the Insani groups, dialogue and/or narration appear on top of the still image.

In both of these cases, the "frame" is defined as a brief segment of dialogue/narration. When the user presses return (or a mouse click, or a controller button), the next frame appears. In most VNs, the picture on screen doesn't *often* change from one frame to the next. A moment goes by, and nothing changes. To use another McCloud term, this would be a moment-to-moment transition. Changes within a single scene are often fairly insignificant -- a person's pose will switch, or a new character will leave/enter the scene.

The pictures in a VN will almost always change from scene to scene. And to use another term from _Understanding Comics_, they would be scene-to-scene transitions.

Okay, here's the point of all this... a visual novel in which the on screen characters don't move or react is kind of like a comic in which all the characters stay in place and talk. Yes, I know it might take a lot of time and effort to include plausible movement from frame to frame. But if it makes the experience more appealing, then maybe it'd be worth it.

It might be a good idea for a VN to include the following:

1. More uses for "gutters" between frames of a visual novel. I don't know of many VNs which have one illustration per frame. I wouldn't mind seeing more. The characters and scenes don't need to change drastically from moment to moment, especially if not much is happening on screen. In fact, they honestly shouldn't emote so much that it becomes annoying. But it would be interesting to see a VN in which the characters are not just standing around doing nothing during scenes.

2. More of the frame-to-frame transitions mentioned in _Understanding Comics_. These can include...

2a. Action-to-action. Important in a story where quite a bit is happening. Combat could be shown in the same way that it is described.

2b. Subject-to-subject. In the same scene, showing one character and then the next. If the main character is holding a dialogue with two or more people, this would be quite useful.

2c. Aspect-to-aspect. Basically, a "wandering eye" perspective. As if the main character or camera is examining a scene, or merely looking here, there, and everywhere. McCloud noted that this is relatively rare in comics written in English. And to be honest, I haven't noticed many aspect-to-aspect transitions in the manga I've read, but maybe that's just genre tendencies...

2d. Non-Sequitur. This makes sense mostly in stories that aren't supposed to make sense. (Whoa.) For example, if Panda Samurai were a little more wacky than it already is, then the writer could justify something completely out of place, like making the head of Abraham Lincoln appear.

...So yeah, it could help expand the world of VNs if characters and backgrounds gradually change through the course of a scene, so that there's a natural progression, like in quality comics and movies. And it might not hurt if there's more transitions than just "a moment goes by" and "in the next scene."

Whattaya think?

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