Sprite in Dialog/on Screen Conflicts

[dstarsboy]

Hey guys,
I need help. I just revamped the code in my VN to display a headshot of the person talking next to the dialog instead of a simple label with just his name. I think the game actually looks better this way (and when the main character is talking, you can see his expression), although, now it seems ridiculously redundant to have that headshot show up when the character is already on screen with the same facial expression!

I've played VNs that have sprite head shots next to the dialog and I never noticed this redundancy so they must be following some set of "rules" as to know when it's a proper time to display the full bodied sprite and when not to, as not to cause this problem. Does anyone know what these "rules" are?

Any help would be appreciated.

[edit] changed the subject so it made more sense with topic

[DaFool]

When the on-screen full-body graphic is 3D instead of 2D, having a 2D head shot makes sense. Actually, most games I see have waist-up, even.

That said, Disgaea 3 violates the 'redundant sprites' rule:

http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/pho ... _key=20437

The ironic thing is that when the expressions change, it's the full body sprite that changes expressions, not the textbox head shot.

[Aleema]

Eh? Rooles? What's that?

I like having portraits next to the dialogue, because it's easier than looking up constantly to see if expressions have changed, and even easier than reading the name of who's speaking. It's just to make reading easier.

Having the sprites and the portraits is mainly an atmospheric decision. If you have a picture of a location, why are there no people in the location, even when someone is talking to you? I guess that's the reasoning. It's also tradition, and just to fill the void that is the background.

My personal standard is to only show the character sprites when they're talking directly to the main character. I happen to be writing a game where the characters will often interact with each other, rather than solely the MC, in which case only their portraits would show. I guess that reasoning is based on the sprites being drawn to look like they're looking at you (having them look at you when they're not talking to you is ... weird).

[Voight-Kampff]

Hmm. I've actually given some thought to this very issue, and I have two theories on how to do this without the ridiculous redundancy you speak of.

First - create chibi versions of the characters and use them for the head shots next to the dialog. At least they'll look different than the main sprite. That being said...If you're making a game where chibi characters do not fit, then that's right out the window. Plus, it adds extra resources that need to be made.

Second - Presumably, your main sprites have a limited range of emotions/poses. If so, you could use the character portraits next to the dialog for imparting more emotion. After all - a reader's eyes are glued to that text box most of the time. Having the character portrait express a wider range of emotions in that spot would be helpful. The reader wouldn't have to move off of the text box as often -they'd be less likely to miss a change in expression. But, again, that adds extra resources. And I'm not sure how much "simpler" that would be than just making more sprites with more expressions.

As DaFool alludes to - I think something like this would be more useful for a game with 3D sprites that have a hard time demonstrating a wide range of emotions. 2D headshots next to the dialog help fill that gap. something along these lines.

[dstarsboy]

Those are all really good suggestions. Thanks.

After reading your comments and looking at other VNs that do this, I have narrowed it down to these rules. First off, i think for all of these, it's a good idea to put a frame or border around the headshot so that, when the sprite and headshot are both on the screen at the same time, it looks slightly differen.

1) I like Aleema's idea to only show the full screen sprite when you're looking directly at the person. That seems to make sense.
2) Voight's idea of adding a wider range of expressions (and even different images entirely) to the dialog headshot will definitely reduce the redundancy.
3) Some VNs I've seen have a generic dialog headshot that doesn't change expressions, this is meant simply to take the place of the textual name, nothing more. A chibi version is cool, but also Voight mentioned that since the reader spends all of his/her time looking at the dialog box, they often miss facial expressions up top.
4) The third way I've seen is to have the game run exclusively off of dialog headshots and not show a single sprite in the main window. This would require you to have a ridiculous amount of gallery images and backgrounds in order to keep the main screen interesting.

Of all of these, I'd like to know which you prefer. Although, if there's any I've missed, please add them.

Thus far, I'm leaning on Aleema's idea (#1). Voight's would work well but I requires quite a few more resources.

[Deji]

I personally don't like having the sprite and the portrait at the same time.

I like a portrait for the main character when he/she is speaking, though.

Like here in Nanatsuiro Drops~


And when a character that's not on screen talks, like here:

[dstarsboy]

I personally don't like having the sprite and the portrait at the same time.

I like a portrait for the main character when he/she is speaking, though.

Like here in Nanatsuiro Drops~


And when a character that's not on screen talks, like here:

I agree, having them on the screen at the same time is poopy.

However, based on how you suggested, would you just use the textual name if the character is on the screen and is talking and only use the headshot for the MC and off-screen dialog? Kind of like a hybrid system, I guess?

[Melkoshi]

However, based on how you suggested, would you just use the textual name if the character is on the screen and is talking and only use the headshot for the MC and off-screen dialog? Kind of like a hybrid system, I guess?

Thats actually exactly what I'm doing. It took me ages to find a good mix as I also disliked having the same person on the screen twice.(else why on earth do you need a main/center sprite...?)

my vote: MC/off screen characters should have the headshot next to the box. and then the others shouldn't. I'd still put the names as text of course, so that it doesn't look too -different- when you change between missing headshot and headshot.

[Tsundere Lightning]

What might be nice is to have all pictures of the MC from the back, with the expressions done as the headshot and the body language from the back.

[JinzouTamashii]

What might be nice is to have all pictures of the MC from the back, with the expressions done as the headshot and the body language from the back.

I am so stealing that.

But make it back, back 3/4, and profile.

[Tsundere Lightning]

<polaris_reference>And So It Was that Jinzo made a game with that.</polaris_reference>

Probably how I'll handle Mask of Joy or Bliss Stage come to that.

(There are two kinds of people in the world - those who go "Shit, they stole my idea!" and those who go "Awesome! They're using my idea!")

[dstarsboy]

Hey guys! Thanks so much for the posts! I decided to go with Deji/Melkoshi's suggestions. Only throwing a sprite in the dialog area for the MC and if someone's offscreen. It works great and feels very natural! Thanks again everyone.

[JinzouTamashii]

Tsundere, I'm already doing art for you anyway! How can I be stealing that idea if the MC in that game is probably going to be the same way!?

[Tsundere Lightning]

When you apply it to your original work?

And I was saying that I don't consider it theft, in any case. I consider it proof that I had a good idea. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[JinzouTamashii]

Oh, shoot, I played this really nice game one with only one bodyshot with three expressions but it had like 20 expressions for the MC and the one girl. And they nearly always talked in profile with the side images swapping sides, it was great.

You can't copyright a good concept...