The Dolls' Stories

A place for game announcements, and for people to discuss games being made.
Forum rules
Please read the sticky before creating a new topic. Linking to Kickstarter/Crowdfunded games requires a demo. Updates to Patreon-backed games may be posted once every 2 months. Adult content should not be posted in this forum.
Message
Author
User avatar
fioricca
Veteran
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:17 am
Completed: Rising Angels Reborn (2013), Rising Angels Fates: Allegiance (2017)
IRC Nick: souten
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#16 Post by fioricca »

Blane Doyle wrote:Jumping in blind, not looking at anything but the art and the story before opening this demo... and the male doll is just ADORABLE.
Ahh thank you so much for trying both routes out! Kudos to you for that! And thank you so much for your kind comment -- you're the first person to make any remarks about the character l-lol I was absolutely convinced that I had ruined the chat system with my crap writing and... bad characters... orz This makes me so happy. Thank you so much!

You actually can re-arrange the keywords however you like! (Except for town square, you can't type "square town" and pass.) We also allowed for some synonyms, so you could have typed "yeah", "sure", "of course" and proceed. :D Could I ask which aspects of the game you thought needed work?

Again, thank you so much for your kind comment. ;3; I'm really glad you enjoyed the demo!
sapiboonggames wrote:This one is superb... please finish this game :D
Eeee thank you so much! I'm really glad to hear that players are actually liking the chat feature, and that it's made playing the game more interesting!

*

Some updates! JW's fixed a part in the female doll's route whereby you have to say "wait", and she runs off on her own. You can now type in anything and get away with it. You can also let the backspace button run, so correcting yourself is a lot easier!

Also I've started doing some proper colouring:

Image

I keep telling myself to keep things simple but I always end up spending more time refining things than I ought to. sob.

Thanks so much for all the feedback so far, everyone *o* They all mean a lot!

User avatar
Anna
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 708
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:30 am
Completed: Binary Soul, Days of the Divine, Nanolife, Firefly
Projects: current: Path of Dreamers
Organization: Circle Pegasi
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#17 Post by Anna »

I really adore your art, the colours and style are cool :3. The game seems to have a cool story and the characters/world interested me, but the chat-system really put me off and made it feel like a chore to continue. It doesn't feel rewarding because it influences nothing and it feels like you basically write down predetermined answers because the input system is so limited.

magbie
Regular
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#18 Post by magbie »

Hey, after replaying your demo I thought about something regarding your conversation system and MC. I also think you should allow more paraphrases (like in case of "shut up" in maledoll route) and shouldn't force unnecessary characterization (being a soldier because "one must eat" for example). Other then that I find it perfect.

And I find both dolls equally cute and likeable :) (ok, I'm lying, male doll is cuter, but shhh...)

User avatar
Blane Doyle
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:00 am
Organization: Autumn Eclectic
Location: Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#19 Post by Blane Doyle »

fioricca wrote:
Blane Doyle wrote:Jumping in blind, not looking at anything but the art and the story before opening this demo... and the male doll is just ADORABLE.
Ahh thank you so much for trying both routes out! Kudos to you for that! And thank you so much for your kind comment -- you're the first person to make any remarks about the character l-lol I was absolutely convinced that I had ruined the chat system with my crap writing and... bad characters... orz This makes me so happy. Thank you so much!

You actually can re-arrange the keywords however you like! (Except for town square, you can't type "square town" and pass.) We also allowed for some synonyms, so you could have typed "yeah", "sure", "of course" and proceed. :D Could I ask which aspects of the game you thought needed work?

Again, thank you so much for your kind comment. ;3; I'm really glad you enjoyed the demo!

Some updates! JW's fixed a part in the female doll's route whereby you have to say "wait", and she runs off on her own. You can now type in anything and get away with it. You can also let the backspace button run, so correcting yourself is a lot easier!

Also I've started doing some proper colouring:

Image

I keep telling myself to keep things simple but I always end up spending more time refining things than I ought to. sob.

Thanks so much for all the feedback so far, everyone *o* They all mean a lot!
I tried to rearrange a few keywords and it worked sometimes but not in other situations... I guess it was because it was like your example of "town square" when I tried then! I love that it does allow for synonyms after all, I didn't think it would let me unless I typed the keyword, so that's nice!

As for what I felt needed work. It was mostly the art (which I KNOW is not finished so it's not even close to a major issue at this point), the dialogue I mentioned (which I was mistaken on, so that's diminished), the backspacing (which you fixed already, nice!), it was sometimes hard to tell when the villagers were talking to each other or it was just one person speaking (changing text color or switching the way the face is facing could fix this?), and I felt that the main character's ambiguity was a bit off.

So all in all, the only issue is the last one. I know it is supposed to be a sort of immersion, and I got the feeling of not having a gender. But the way Mel talked, it came off that I was playing a male. I was just very confused, but at the same time I appreciated the androgyny of it. So I'm 50/50 about this part.

And honestly? This was very good writing. The issue up there is always expected when using gender ambiguity. And I really, REALLY did adore the male doll! He's a kind of character that I enjoy, male or female but I always like that personality more on a male. I had no problem liking who I needed to like, and that is important in these situations.

And that art looks fantastic! I can't wait to see final products!

User avatar
Cadenza
Regular
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:43 am
Projects: Ghost Memory
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#20 Post by Cadenza »

Usually I'm not a fan of kinetic novels, but this looks beautiful and I like how there is still a degree of user interaction. I just played the demo and enjoyed it quite a bit.The GUI screenshots that you've posted are absolutely lovely, it's one of my favourite GUIs that I've seen. It's simplistic, elegant and it works so well with the VN. And the art is fantastic, of course. I can't wait for this to be released!

User avatar
fioricca
Veteran
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:17 am
Completed: Rising Angels Reborn (2013), Rising Angels Fates: Allegiance (2017)
IRC Nick: souten
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#21 Post by fioricca »

Anna wrote:I really adore your art, the colours and style are cool :3. The game seems to have a cool story and the characters/world interested me, but the chat-system really put me off and made it feel like a chore to continue. It doesn't feel rewarding because it influences nothing and it feels like you basically write down predetermined answers because the input system is so limited.
Thank you for trying the game out, and for the feedback! *A* I'm relieved that the lame placeholder images didn't put you off haha. ;_; Can I ask how you felt that the chat system was limited? What would you have liked to be able to do?
magbie wrote:Hey, after replaying your demo I thought about something regarding your conversation system and MC. I also think you should allow more paraphrases (like in case of "shut up" in maledoll route) and shouldn't force unnecessary characterization (being a soldier because "one must eat" for example). Other then that I find it perfect.

And I find both dolls equally cute and likeable :) (ok, I'm lying, male doll is cuter, but shhh...)
Ahhh I'm so flattered that you actually replayed the demo! Thank you so much! I'm really glad to hear that you liked the boy doll, too. As for synonyms, we really tried our best to think of all the suitable synonyms we could throw in, but the power of two people is pretty limited... XD; So if you could give examples/suggest specific synonyms we could use, that would be super helpful! *A*
Blane Doyle wrote:I tried to rearrange a few keywords and it worked sometimes but not in other situations... I guess it was because it was like your example of "town square" when I tried then! I love that it does allow for synonyms after all, I didn't think it would let me unless I typed the keyword, so that's nice!

As for what I felt needed work. It was mostly the art (which I KNOW is not finished so it's not even close to a major issue at this point), the dialogue I mentioned (which I was mistaken on, so that's diminished), the backspacing (which you fixed already, nice!), it was sometimes hard to tell when the villagers were talking to each other or it was just one person speaking (changing text color or switching the way the face is facing could fix this?), and I felt that the main character's ambiguity was a bit off.

So all in all, the only issue is the last one. I know it is supposed to be a sort of immersion, and I got the feeling of not having a gender. But the way Mel talked, it came off that I was playing a male. I was just very confused, but at the same time I appreciated the androgyny of it. So I'm 50/50 about this part.

And honestly? This was very good writing. The issue up there is always expected when using gender ambiguity. And I really, REALLY did adore the male doll! He's a kind of character that I enjoy, male or female but I always like that personality more on a male. I had no problem liking who I needed to like, and that is important in these situations.

And that art looks fantastic! I can't wait to see final products!
alsdfkj oh my god you are too kind to me ;o; Thank you so much, I'm really glad to hear that you liked chatting with the boy doll! Considering 50% of this game will consist of you chatting with your partner, I wouldn't know what to do if the experience wasn't enjoyable at all... OTL Thanks for raising the issue about androgyny. I wanted to keep the MC's gender neutral as the MC is supposed to be the player, and I can't control who plays this game. XD; I guess it would come off as a little strange sometimes. I think I'll go over my script again when I'm at the polishing stage and fix some of the wording, so it sounds less awkward.

Eee thank you so much! Here's to hoping the final product doesn't disappoint anyone!
Cadenza wrote:Usually I'm not a fan of kinetic novels, but this looks beautiful and I like how there is still a degree of user interaction. I just played the demo and enjoyed it quite a bit.The GUI screenshots that you've posted are absolutely lovely, it's one of my favourite GUIs that I've seen. It's simplistic, elegant and it works so well with the VN. And the art is fantastic, of course. I can't wait for this to be released!
... omg youuuu kind sir/ma'am, are too gracious ;o; <33 This is such a sweet comment. Thank you so much -- I'm glad you enjoyed the demo, and that you like the GUI design! I'm not very good at graphic design so I was really stumped on what to do. I'm also flattered to hear that you like the art! Thank you!

*

Some more updates! We're working on the next scene, and I did more colouring:

Image

Gilfred is so hard to draw omg I spent the most stupid amount of time on him but he doesn't reflect that |||orz

We're making progress everyday! It's so exciting. *o*

magbie
Regular
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#22 Post by magbie »

Sure, I can spare a moment. Let's see:

Maledoll route:

1. It's a small thing but in maledoll route when you get to the market and explain selling and buying, there should be a paraphrase, precisely with the words like goods and haggling (stuff, things, merchandise)
2. Like I said before, reasons to be a soldier for MC should be up to player to decide :)
3. Post marriage dialogue. Paraphrase to "shut up" ("be quiet, quiet or nothing at all)
4. Paraphrase to "No" when maledoll says MC should have some kebab
5. Paraphrase to 'I'll be fine" (I'll be okay, it's okay, words like not and hurt)

Femaledoll route (a lot less here, more is happening and femdoll doesn't listen :P I like how you gave them different personalities btw) :
1. Paraphrase to "Wait" - she's going to ignore MC anyway
2. 'happy you're fine' if it's important for plot, then leave the general feeling, but allow narrow paraphrasing like glad, good
3. "do you like them' can be changed to "like, them" - gives much more freedom

So that would be all :D
Sorry, If I'm nitpicking too much ^^;

User avatar
Blane Doyle
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:00 am
Organization: Autumn Eclectic
Location: Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#23 Post by Blane Doyle »

Oh hello new male character who has caught my eye where have you been?

His outfit is GLORIOUS.

User avatar
Anna
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 708
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:30 am
Completed: Binary Soul, Days of the Divine, Nanolife, Firefly
Projects: current: Path of Dreamers
Organization: Circle Pegasi
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#24 Post by Anna »

fioricca wrote: Thank you for trying the game out, and for the feedback! *A* I'm relieved that the lame placeholder images didn't put you off haha. ;_; Can I ask how you felt that the chat system was limited? What would you have liked to be able to do?
I'm not sure how to fix it other than making what you say influence nothing or making the sentence interpret system really good (adding many words, checking what people try by testing it in real life etc may help)... I'm really not sure. Or you could make them "you say this!" choice options to gain points like in Dragon Age, but that's probably not what you're going for.

Here's at least what bugged me about it, and this is just my personal experience: to me it just feels useless to write something which is already half written in the keywords. What bugged me was that it had many keywords for one sentence (many = three), which doesn't leave much room for creativity, but also that the doll asked about mundane things constantly and the conversation just wasn't interesting. So writing something which matches the keywords well enough makes me think it might as well have been a normal kinetic novel, because the influence is zero.

User avatar
kittykatlover
Regular
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:33 pm
Projects: Devil's Betrayal
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#25 Post by kittykatlover »

Would you be willing to put a Linux demo up?

User avatar
fioricca
Veteran
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:17 am
Completed: Rising Angels Reborn (2013), Rising Angels Fates: Allegiance (2017)
IRC Nick: souten
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#26 Post by fioricca »

magbie wrote:Sure, I can spare a moment. Let's see:

Maledoll route:

1. It's a small thing but in maledoll route when you get to the market and explain selling and buying, there should be a paraphrase, precisely with the words like goods and haggling (stuff, things, merchandise)
2. Like I said before, reasons to be a soldier for MC should be up to player to decide :)
3. Post marriage dialogue. Paraphrase to "shut up" ("be quiet, quiet or nothing at all)
4. Paraphrase to "No" when maledoll says MC should have some kebab
5. Paraphrase to 'I'll be fine" (I'll be okay, it's okay, words like not and hurt)

Femaledoll route (a lot less here, more is happening and femdoll doesn't listen :P I like how you gave them different personalities btw) :
1. Paraphrase to "Wait" - she's going to ignore MC anyway
2. 'happy you're fine' if it's important for plot, then leave the general feeling, but allow narrow paraphrasing like glad, good
3. "do you like them' can be changed to "like, them" - gives much more freedom

So that would be all :D
Sorry, If I'm nitpicking too much ^^;
Not at all, and thank you so much for those suggestions! We did include synonyms for goods, such as merchandise. As for the reason as to why the player is a soldier, well... we kind of had to force that one because it's impossible to prepare a response for different combinations. XD; The problem with a feature that enables you to enter anything you like is exactly that -- there are so many combinations, and it's impossible (and, I feel, is unsuitable) to cater to them all in a short game. We had no choice but to force some of the answers, and this is one of them. "Happy that you're fine" was another. Sorry about that ^^;
Blane Doyle wrote:Oh hello new male character who has caught my eye where have you been?

His outfit is GLORIOUS.
Ahh thank you so much *///o///* I'm really glad you liked Gilfred's design! I did put in extra effort when drawing him, so hearing others appreciate that makes me so happy. ♥
Anna wrote:I'm not sure how to fix it other than making what you say influence nothing or making the sentence interpret system really good (adding many words, checking what people try by testing it in real life etc may help)... I'm really not sure. Or you could make them "you say this!" choice options to gain points like in Dragon Age, but that's probably not what you're going for.

Here's at least what bugged me about it, and this is just my personal experience: to me it just feels useless to write something which is already half written in the keywords. What bugged me was that it had many keywords for one sentence (many = three), which doesn't leave much room for creativity, but also that the doll asked about mundane things constantly and the conversation just wasn't interesting. So writing something which matches the keywords well enough makes me think it might as well have been a normal kinetic novel, because the influence is zero.
Thanks for the feedback, Anna! Reading through, am I correct in understanding that you had originally expected a flexible system in which what you say determines/influences the outcome of something? If so, then I'm really sorry as this game is... really not meant to be that at all. ;; I'm still unsure of how to best utilise this chat system, so right now, this game is designed to be exactly like a kinetic novel, except that you type in your answers for (hopefully) greater immersion. I'm really sorry to say that the only thing you can do is typing in predetermined answers ;; As I've mentioned, we still don't know where to go and how to best use this, but we're also limited by the fact that we have no writer, and I can't write to save my life. orz We'd love to include a wide variety of responses and have something really dynamic, but it's not possible given the resources and time that we have ^^; (Especially when a friend typed in dialogue like "let's go to the market to look at hot yaois and buy some doujins (((8" rofl...) Again, sorry to disappoint you.

But thank you so much for raising the point up all the same -- it's definitely given me some directions on how we can further refine this in the future. :D
kittykatlover wrote:Would you be willing to put a Linux demo up?
Ack -- unfortunately, I've tinkered with the files further, so I can't provide a Linux demo at this stage! But if we do have an updated demo up, I'll provide all three versions. Sorry about that.

*

I'd like to say -- with this game, it's not in our intention to have a really complex and dynamic chat system due to one major limitation that we have: the lack of a writer. Without a writer, we can't prepare a wide range of responses for everything, and in view of that, I don't think it's appropriate to have a more complex system that includes banned words (such as swear words or emotes), or forced responses. (e.g. "this is not a town square" will still advance the story, and your doll will still think that it is.) That means that players who type in unrelated stuff won't be penalised, and those who are creative in their responses aren't rewarded. It's disappointing, but we're not really sure how to tackle the issue of how everyone can prepare a unique answer. However, I think that the fact that everyone has different opinions/ways of communicating is beautiful and exciting, which is why I wanted to see a game in which players do type in predetermined answers (unfortunately), but in, at least, their own manner of speech. I was curious as to if this would promote the "self-insertion" that is common in dating sims, and curious as to if players liked it.

I grew up mostly with JVNs/JRPGs, which emphasised self-insertion (see the latest Persona games, for instance). I had a suspicion that people actually like self-insertion as features related to customisation/freedom/dynamism are really popular, so I wanted to see how people would react when presented with the opportunity to "communicate directly" with characters, as opposed to clicking on choices. So instead of clicking on an option to "annoy the character" and be presented with some dialogue of how the MC verbally abuses the character he/she is interacting with, would a guided chat of how the MC verbally abuses the character be more interactive instead? That is -- the same content, but presented in a different manner. That's mostly what I'm looking at for now. :'D

I do apologise if some users expected something more dynamic, and curse my own inabilities to deliver it! But thank you so much for trying the game out and providing feedback so far. Thank you to those who enjoyed the chat feature, too; your support means tons. ♥ I keep repeating myself but I'm really bummed by how this game is basically bad everything (except for the programming NGHH JW'S AWESOME CODING IS THE ONLY REASON WHY PEOPLE WOULD EVEN LOOK AT THIS GAME Q_Q) as it's just meant to be an experiment, and because we don't have the resources or time to make something that's even better OTL But a friend of mine has agreed to be my writer for future games, so hopefully we'll be able to deliver better content.

Tackling each issue one step at a time!

I really wish I had no essays to write so I can just work on this all day OTL

CheeryMoya
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:09 am

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#27 Post by CheeryMoya »

Well, the thing is, when you have the ability to type stuff in the player expects to be able to have more choice in the game. The fact that this is a KN which happens to make you type stuff in is a bit of a let down, and you'd have a better story if you simply had a protagonist with a pre-set personality. If you have a self-insert with no control over the story/characters... there isn't much point.

And you don't have a writer? Post in the Recruitment thread! :V I'd jump on this thing if I wasn't so damn busy, but I'm sure others would gladly snatch up the chance. This game has potential if you go out and find all the people you need to make it great, so go out and find them! It really would be a shame if you didn't realize the full potential of a free chat system.

magbie
Regular
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#28 Post by magbie »

This thread is starting to gather dust :<
Please tell me you're not abandoning this project ;<

User avatar
fioricca
Veteran
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:17 am
Completed: Rising Angels Reborn (2013), Rising Angels Fates: Allegiance (2017)
IRC Nick: souten
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#29 Post by fioricca »

HJSGDFH

omg I'm really sorry! As I've just explained in a PM to CheeryMoya, this project is not neglected, honest. We're still aiming to finish it in one to two weeks as well. I've taken everyone's opinions into consideration and roped in a writer friend of mine, so everyone will be spared from the agony that is my horrible grammar and boring writing! *_* The three of us have discussed the opinions offered in this thread (THANK YOU THANK YOU AGAIN), and we're doing our best to balance between offering what players want and what we can offer, since we're just starting out. Unfortunately, progress on this has been slow, so I haven't had anything substantial to report; we're still trying to figure out if it's even possible to include branching events so the chat is more dynamic. We don't have anything to announce, which is why I've held off posting anything. But please rest assured that all your opinions are being given heavy consideration! (Which somehow translated to my lack of updates. Gahhh.)

Here, have a shot of Mel's boobs to show how sorry I am:

Image

/o\

I'm really happy to hear that there are actually people who do keep an eye out for this project. ;_; ♥ It's small and it's not perfect, or even great, so I thought that it'd just be quietly ignored. Especially since there are so many other wonderful projects happening here! *_* So thank you so much for the interest -- it really means a lot!

User avatar
Blane Doyle
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:00 am
Organization: Autumn Eclectic
Location: Mountains
Contact:

Re: The Dolls' Stories

#30 Post by Blane Doyle »

Oh wow, I completely missed that you posted, sorry!

I had a feeling that the silence from from reworking elements, and I am glad to see that you have been working hard on the project! I'm still looking forward to seeing the final product.

And I can appreciate that picture quite a bit in the mean time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users