Re: Witch/Knight [Fantasy] [Nano 2013]
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:38 am
I enjoyed it! The interface was sleek and the overall quality was great.
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Thanks. >w<Anna wrote:I got one ending, so I'm not sure how much different the other endings are and if I'm missing out (tell me if I am!) the ending I got was
where she saved Xiao in a way and gave up on saving her girlfriend.The characters you've written are very lovable;It's OK, I understand. You're a knight. I'm green. <- I laughed so much.And dialogue was just really interesting and fun. I think Xiao is a cutie too, really liked him.
I also really liked the music you picked, the art Auro did for this (it matched the story very well) and the setup of the story with the trials. It all comes together nicely and makes the story a fun read~
However, I feel some parts could have been handled better:
Some foreshadowing to what was really going on was a bit missing for me as well. While there seemed to be some subtle foreshadowing (like with the lake in the second trial), it felt lacking and easily hand-waved by the reader. The blue-eyes thing also made no sense for me as a clue because seeing a goddess, a green girl, and a black-eyed kid is much weirder than a blue-eyed dark-skinned person.
Still, the biggest problem I had was that all of the drama of the story came from a silly mistake Elisa made. It's still in-character, but instead of feeling sorrow for the characters, it made me feel frustrated because it was all because of that mistake and then she simply waited for the angry crowd to arrive and burn her alive ^^;. And then the end sort of didn't work for me anymore because it all relied on feeling sorry for the characters there.[/spoiler]
The scripting felt lacking here and there, for example with fade-ins of the sprites; when everyone just suddenly appears it becomes normal so it's weird that Bethlyn is surprised by Xiao and the goddess suddenly popping up. It also makes dramatic scenes feel too sudden, such as when her side-sprite flicks from fine to crying out within a second/without a transition. And it makes some stuff unclear when you don't explain them in text either. There was a part where she fell into the lake and fought against it, but I had no idea how or what was going on there. All I knew was the lake suddenly lost - an explanation, visual flash or magical other effect from her armour might have helped clarify things.
Nah, none of the jokes about Chinese are even vital or anything; like, the jokes about Huoji's name are just meant to be sort of stupid, so it doesn't really matter (Huoji means turkey, which is just a weird/stupid name for a goddess of all things to have). I can change gùn to staff, though; that's not a big deal.Aside from that it feels like the VN assumes you know Chinese, because it keeps making jokes about/mentioning the Chinese names and even shows this doodle with Chinese written under it. It can still be somewhat understood from the text, but you have to look for it and it feels a little frustrating. Same goes for the mentions of strange creatures of which you can't make a clear image in your head because you have no idea what they are for example, or the gùn you have a choice about in one of the trials (I had no idea what that was).
Pfft, why would it upset? It's not like you said, "I hate this and it's the worse thing in the history of ever" and it did make consider making some points and character motivations clearer. >>I hope I didn't upset or insult you in any way, because that was definitely not my intention. I just really wanted to let you know because I enjoy your writing a lot.
No reason; it just happened to come out that way. Also, the demigods are meant to be gender ambiguous, so some of them could be guys.Chibichann wrote:The game was fun,with all the commotions and all,well have to say one of the most well made vn i have played,Xiǎoniǎo is my favorite character,but i wanted to ask why did you only make 1 male character.
Thanks. >w< And there's four endings, really. One seems to have turned out to be harder to find than I thought it was, but I can post a guide on how to get all of them.Taleweaver wrote:BEAUTIFUL choice of intro music, and it leads into a very well-designed, nice-looking game. Huoji is quite the memorable character, and I must say I enjoyed finding three endings. If there are more... well, then I didn't find them.
Minor bug: At the end of one path (where you're being not protective of Birdy), after the final line, the game ends with a black screen, and only multiple clicks into nothing brought me back to the main menu. The end credits don't seem to be playing.
Hm, yes, my horns seem to be growing in nicely. I am finally becoming Satan.CheeryMoya wrote:I literally had this page open yesterday but I was so emotionally distraught that I couldn't type anything. Do you understand what that means? You're probably smiling aren't you? Yes you are. I hate you so much. Thank you for letting me be a part of this.
No seriously, I was the idea bouncer so I knew what was coming, but the execution still got me. Like, DAMN YOU. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY.
There aren't any win-win endings in this story. I simultaneously hate and love that."Trade Yourself" ending didn't accomplish anything at all for Elisa. In fact, it probably took two steps back because that was exactly was Bethlyn didn't want and Elisa STILL DID IT WOW THANKSIt was a damn mistake to be nice to Xiao on the first run and I regret everything.
"Trade Xiao" wasn't much better because while the girls are happily reunited, Elisa still has the sense that something is missing... DAMN IT
"Forever Alone" is the worst of them. Literally nothing gets accomplished. Was it even necessary to include this when you cut out so much already???
"Keep Xiao" was the only "good" ending here... but then again that doesn't really help me feel better.
I'm pretty sure Beth wasn't in the best of mental states and just didn't bother patching up. >_>And well, we all know how nice Auro's art is. During the game it was great to see Bethlyn get more and more wounded and have it not *magically* heal (then again, you have to ask if she didn't want to patch up a little between trials). It was also nice to see that there were no late choices at the end to determine an ending, everything throughout the trials decided what would happen. I think the only things I have to complain about is that the art remained serious during the comedic parts (Elisa and Bethlyn screaming at each other; despite their expressions, the art didn't really convey the humor of the scene if it makes sense) and slight anatomy problems in the CGs. Still, considering Auro did everything herself, everything looks great.
Thanks. I now feel fulfilled. 83The choice of music was good I think, it carried the emotional bits well. Rikka's voice clips definitely add to the scenes too, though I wonder if you guys recorded some grunts and battle cries (here's looking at Trial 4). I don't know what else to add since it'd all be fluff besides YOU PUNCHED ME IN THE FEELS AND YOUR MISSION HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. CONGRATULATIONS.
Good job everyone \ (˚▽˚) / Definitely one of the highlights of NaNo13.
Thanks. >w<Einara wrote:I enjoyed it! The interface was sleek and the overall quality was great.
Nah, no one is. I went ahead and released it without it first, since it's not necessary to the game as a whole. It should be there in the coming update, though.saguaro wrote:This is a really solid NaNo release. You guys did a great job.
I played through three of the endings. I wasn’t able to get into the extras, so I’m guessing you need to get 4 endings for that to happen?
Ugh, I swear to god, Renpy. I had some weird issues with it not showing changes, and I'm wondering if that happened again. I'll look into it and fix it, though.A few quick scripting things. There is an issue with the hotspots on the main menu where the hover area is square that extends past the white border. The battle music keeps playing after the Si battle when you return to the Temple.
Yeah, anachronisms are sort of a personal preference kind of thing, like whether or not breaking the fourth wall is distracting, so I tried to only put like...a few, that are spaced out. There's actually a vague Dante's Inferno joke/reference at the beginning.I agree with a lot of what Anna said, positive and negative, so I won’t rehash those points.
Some of the writing, especially at the beginning, left me a little cold.Anachronisms are always distracting to me (and Beckett ostensibly doesn’t exist in a medieval fantasy world?). Sometimes it’s hard for me to balance the silliness of the banter with the fact that one of the main characters was burned at the stake, which is really, really horrible way to die. That being said, things do smooth out a bit once the story gets going, and there are a lot of funny lines. I especially liked the reoccurring, “You’re still here?” gag with Birdy.
Yeah, you're probably right.Just an observation: these characters roll their eyes a lot.
The reveal scene was really excellent and easily my favorite part. Everything about it—the writing, the pacing, the music, the art, the way CGs were interspersed—worked. (I’d actually wondered about the blue eyes when I saw art in the WIP thread, having a visual element like that was a nice touch.)
Cadenza wrote:"Bethlyn"'s personality during the present correlated fine with the actual Bethlyn's personality in the flashbacks. She didn't seem like Elisa at all to me. I know it would probably look like erratic characterisation if you made "Bethlyn" match Elisa's personality when we're not meant to know who she is, but it still bothered me.
And why would Elisa need to lie about her name and circumstances to Huoji and Xiaoniao? I know she has to lie for the sake of the narrative, but it doesn't make sense why she has to lie in-universe. A line about "I wanted to preserve Bethlyn's identity in this body bluh bluh" or something would probably clear that up. It'd be shaky, but it'd work.
Honestly, I didn't see the twist as necessary. I really didn't.
Cadenza wrote:I will say, I was very happy with my ending! Lovely win for me.Got "Elisa" back and Xiaoniao went back into Huoji. All is well~
Asachi wrote:\^o^/ Just wanna say I really enjoyed the game!
The story was interesting for a short VN and the twist was very unexpected, I felt that it expressed the love between Beth and Elisa very well. I also liked how all the number siblings had the same appearance, although they had the same sprites, I could totally tell that they weren't the same people through the writing, It definitely brought out their personalities even in just the first few lines. However, I felt that the Chinese names jokes should be translated, for me, I can understand mandarin so it's no problem but for others, I don't think they will be able to get the joke.It think it plays a pretty big part in the drawings XiaoNiao gave the protagonist, since he drew Huoji as a turkey.
There's actually a reason I used Liang: I'm more or less copy/pasting everything and couldn't find er with a capital e and a tone, so I gave up and used Liang. >_>I also enjoyed the music very much, especially the one that plays when you enter the temple, the humming in the background really gives off that mythical feeling. The light tune that plays in the first few trials were quite a contrast to the one that plays in the last few and I felt that it seems to show that the trials are getting more and more difficult.
Auro's art was definitely beautiful! I could stare at the backgrounds forever.The sepia effect in the flashbacks really hides Elisa's identity very well, actually, I didn't even realize that "Beth" was actually not Beth at all!A little nitpick thing though, Liang's name really annoys me because liang is actually used a term for amount(for example, 我吃了两个汉堡包), so in this case I felt that if you are naming the siblings according to numbers, it should be "er" instead. Also, I'm kind of wondering if Huoji named Xiaoniao as well haha XD (The bad naming sense probably runs in the family.)
And because I really like Xiaoniao
shutupalice wrote:This was really enjoyable and I'm very glad that I played it. I loved the surprise GxG (stories with GxG AND a plot? They shouldn't be this rare!), I loved the protagonist, I loved her relationship with her girlfriend, I loved her budding friendship with Xiǎoniǎo, I loved the character designs... overall, it was just a very good game.
A few nitpicks, though:I understand that "Beth"'s eyes were a clue, and I don't think that itself is a bad choice, but the way it was done was a little uncomfortable. No normal human has eyes in that particular shade of blue, but normal blue eyes are often represented in fantasy art this way, and while it's rare, black people can absolutely have normal blue eyes (especially if not all of their ancestors were black). It was just a weird, awkward moment because previously, I was really enjoying that the game had a black heroine without treating her race as anything out of the ordinary. Personally, I'd suggest picking a fantasy eye color that isn't used so often to represent normal human eyes--since it's a fantasy world and there aren't any other full-color normal humans to compare her to, I don't think many players would be suspicious of "Beth" walking around with yellow eyes or pink eyes or something, and it would preserve the clue without making anyone's ethnicity into a big Thing.
I like that Elisa was a bit hard for a human (whether that's the real Beth, or the player) to understand, but that didn't always come across very clearly. I got it, but I think it could have been better foreshadowed? Elisa's decision to destroy the water (and then her later decision to turn herself in and be burned) might be more powerful if we get to understand that from her own perspective, she wasn't just being thoughtless. Perhaps more examples of Elisa thinking strangely and being unable to think from a human perspective might help?
The endings themselves were really nice-- I liked that there was no perfect happy end, and you'd always have to sacrifice something-- but I felt like they didn't exactly map onto the choices I made. In my first playthrough, I liked Xiǎoniǎo enough and I was very nice to him, but there never was a point where I chose him over Beth. I can understand if my Elisa, at that point, would not have let Xiǎoniǎo sacrifice himself, at least not if he didn't really want to go back to HuǒJī. I don't understand her decision to give up on reviving her girlfriend altogether, because that's not how I was playing her. Since I was making decisions for Elisa this whole time, it felt very unsatisfying for that last decision to be made for me, when I didn't really indicate through the course of the game that this is what I'd have wanted to do... I don't think choosing to be pleasant to Xiǎoniǎo would really have a direct correlation to choosing him over Beth?
That'll probably done...in about a few weeks, because I have finals coming upBut that's it, really. I'm looking forward to seeing the updated version with the extras!
Cadenza wrote:And why would Elisa need to lie about her name and circumstances to Huoji and Xiaoniao? I know she has to lie for the sake of the narrative, but it doesn't make sense why she has to lie in-universe. A line about "I wanted to preserve Bethlyn's identity in this body bluh bluh" or something would probably clear that up. It'd be shaky, but it'd work.It was less lying and more force of habit. I'm sure it'd be safer to just tell everyone the same thing than to decide that maybe this person won't say the wrong thing. Also, if you're lying about something and have been, you should probably lie about it consistently.Honestly, I didn't see the twist as necessary. I really didn't.Except it kind of is? The real Beth and Elisa are different people; I'd have to rewrite the entire story, because the it'd have to play out differently by virtue of one is an actual knight, and the other is completely untrained.
If you're asking why I made the twist that in particular, it's because I found it more interesting from a narrative standpoint.Also, will Bethlyn and Elisa be able to return to their proper bodies? I don't think that was mentioned.
Flowers from Nowhere wrote:That said, I do have to agree with Cadenza that "Bethlyn's" personality did not seem very similar to Elisa's to me.