April Fools: Ren'Py License Change

Discuss how to use the Ren'Py engine to create visual novels and story-based games. New releases are announced in this section.
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PyTom
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April Fools: Ren'Py License Change

#1 Post by PyTom » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:50 am

Okay, now that NaNoRenO is over, it's time to make a hard announcement.

First of all, some background. Over the past year or so, I've spent close to a grand on Ren'Py related expenses. These come in many forms. $800 for the server that hosts bishoujo.us, renai.us, and these forums. $70 for a mac to develop the mac port on. Then there's money for drawing tablets, money to go to cons to promote Ren'Py... it adds up.

Now, don't take this as me complaining. I mean, Ren'Py is a hobby, and one I truly enjoy. I like playing the Ren'Py games people create, and I even like doing the various support jobs. While documentation and testing aren't the most fun activities I could think of, they're worth doing because people make the games I want to play.

And that's really why I made Ren'Py... to play the games that I enjoy.

What do I enjoy. Well, first and foremost, there are the usual bishoujo games. There's also the Bishonen games, like AP and WiRTW... I wasn't sure I'd like them at first, but hey, I was able to make the perspective switch. Go figure. I also like the girl-girl games, perhaps for a different reason.

Now, what did I leave out of this?

The BxB games. Boy's Love, Yaoi, whatever you want to call them... I have no interest in them whatsoever. They just don't seem like the type of game I'd be interested in playing.

So I need to ask myself, why am I bothering to give away a huge amount of work (Sloccount calls it $300,000+, but I'd guess it probably is worth closer to $50,000) to people who want to make games that fail to interest me?

After months of thinking, I haven't been able to come up with a good answer.

Anyway, as of the next release of Ren'Py, I've decided to add a clause to the license to forbid distribution of Ren'Py with Boy's Love games. I'd expect the license to read something like:

Code: Select all

Copyright 2004-2006 PyTom <pytom@bishoujo.us>



Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person
obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files
(the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction,
including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge,
publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software,
and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so,
subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

The Software may not be distributed with a "Boy's Love"
game. For the purposes of this license, a "Boy's Love" game is any
work of fiction or nonfiction featuring (along any path) an
exclusively male relationship, regardless of the age of the characters
in that relationship.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND
NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE
LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION
OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION
WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
I'm still not totally sure about the wording of the new paragraph, and I probably won't be until I run it past my cousin. (The lawyer, not the rapper.) But it should give the gist of what's going on.

Now, say you're making a BL game... what do you do?

Well, first of all, realize this won't go into effect for a while. I'm planning on giving a grace period of until the middle of April (call it April 15th) for people to finish working on NaNoRenO games. It will probably take me at least that long to make the first release of Ren'Py 5.5, which will probably be the series leading up to Ren'Py 6.

After the license changes, however, BL-game makers will have some choices:

1) Stick with Ren'Py 5.4. While I discourage the use of older version of Ren'Py, there aren't any known unfixed bugs in the 5.4 series, so you can probably stick with that for a while. Of course, there's a limit to the support which I can provide for older version of Ren'Py, so you'll need to take that into account.

2) Require users to download Ren'Py separately from the game, and merge them themselves. I specifically don't forbid this... but it would be awful inconvenient for users.

3) Buy a license. That's right, I will be making Ren'Py distribution licenses available for BL-games. There will probably be a per-game license for freely distributable games, and a small per-copy fee for commercial games. Obviously, this is the choice I hope BL-game creators will decide to take.

The goal of this isn't to make me rich, so it's not like I'll be charging huge amounts of money for this. (I figure no more than $100 for the free game fee, and no more than $1 for the per-copy fee.) But I do hope to get a small stream of income that I can plow back into Ren'Py development. (I believe $200-$300 will be enough to enable me to work on port to the PSP, for example.)

Anyway, I'd appreciate comments from people, letting me know what they think of this. While my mind's mad up about the basics of this, I'd be open to suggestions on the details.
Last edited by PyTom on Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#2 Post by denzil » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:45 am

So boy x tentacle monster is okay? :)


Oh and in first paragraph of the licence you should change line:

Code: Select all

(the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, 
to

Code: Select all

(the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction except for the one noted below, 
or something like that.

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#3 Post by mikey » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:21 am

I'm only going to say this once, I'm very disappointed at what just happened here... My opinion about this is in the spoiler tag, because it contains coarse language - I hope the administrator will stand up to the choice he made and not delete it, even though it's very critical. Please read PyTom's announcement again before reading my response. It may be the last one on this forum from me, if this continues.
OMG! For a few minutes, I actually fell for this!!!
^_^
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^_^
^_^
^_^
^_^

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#4 Post by RedSlash » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:21 am

I believe $200-$300 will be enough to enable me to work on port to the PSP
Porting ren'py to the PSP is actually a really cool idea. I could have something to do on those long trips. For portables, you'd probably have an easier time porting it to the GP2X as it is Linux based, but too bad not many end users have the GP2X.

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#5 Post by absinthe » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:53 am

I, for one, think Py'Tom has the right to put any terms he wants on Ren'Py, and am just thankful he didn't pick something I'm interested in to restrict (like the tentaclesXkittens* genre...).

Oh, and I'll happily donate to the keep Py'Tom in beer and pretzels and bandwidth fund, where's the button?


*For the record, I don't really like tentacles or any genres involving them, but for some reason everyone I know thinks I do. It's a running joke around my house even. I guess when you're the DM, you shouldn't run more than one adventure featuring tentacle monsters or everyone thinks you're obsessed.

(I think it's past my bedtime.)
My 2007 NaNo entry: Eidolon

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#6 Post by Alessio » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:21 am

Well, for a second I was scared, but then I noticed this will not have any impact on my other short Visual Novel I'm planning to release today, Go! Tentacle Machine. It's a TENTACLExTENTACLE Visual Novel.

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#7 Post by PyTom » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:20 am

I would assume that all tentacle monsters are male, and so the new license would tend to forbid the distribution of Ren'Py with such games.

In fact, I'd actually be curious as to what the female equivalent of a tentacle monster is.
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#8 Post by Alessio » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:36 am

Good point and interesting question! :D

Edit: This question didn't let me go... I'm actually assuming male and female both have tentacles, very much like octopuses. So you could even make a TentacleBxTentacleG story or similar. Now wouldn't that be romantic. Hmm, this looks like an interesting topic for Go! Magical Boy II: The Return. :)

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#9 Post by papillon » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:38 am

I have to admit, I have very rarely met a female tentacle monster.

I think I saw one *once*.

Girl monsters tend to go in the direction of extra arms rather than tentacles.

However, my good friend the tentacle demon would like to put in a request for more BoyTentacleXGirl romance rather than the unfortunate way members of his race are so frequently depicted...


Edit: I never did finish Tentacle Temptress Twins, TxGxG!

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#10 Post by PyTom » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:32 pm

papillon wrote:Edit: I never did finish Tentacle Temptress Twins, TxGxG!
I'll be in my bunk.
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#11 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:12 pm

I have no qualms with this- it doesn't disturb me in the slightest. In fact, considering my values, I'd probably advocate it. However, to me it seems kind of pointless. I highly doubt anyone will switch from doing a boy x boy game to a boy x girl game just because of this issue. I think this will only serve to discourage boy x boy games, instead of encourage boy x girl games. Though, I suppose that means Py'Tom won't have to provide support for games he doesn't want to play, because those games will use a different engine.
Assuming that they don't use Ren'Py, which is what I predict. Though that may be wrong. I'm pretty cheap, so I am horrible at predicting what kinds of things people are willing to pay good money for.

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#12 Post by RedSlash » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:29 pm

I highly doubt anyone will switch from doing a boy x boy game to a boy x girl game just because of this issue.
I believe the licence is only vaild up until noon of today. So it's okay.

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#13 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:08 am

... I guess I'm dumb... Is this a joke? I don't get it...
EDIT:
April Fools? Wow... I am dumb...

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#14 Post by PyTom » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:15 am

Yes, this post was in fact my 2006 April Fool's joke.

Although many of the things about it are true (all of the numbers, the fact that I'm not really into BL games, and I do have a cousin that is a white rapper), I actually do not have any plans to change the license of Ren'Py in the near future. If anything, I'm actually planning on loosening the licenses on MW and the Ren'Py demo game.

Even though I'm not into BL games, I take the position that what I do is to make paintbrushes, and it isn't overly right for me to try to control what people do with those paintbrushes.
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#15 Post by mikey » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:46 am

Well, it was that touch of credibility that really got me. I was already thinking how to formulate an answer expressing all the various concerns, and was thinking about how 15 days until that license will take effect isn't really all too long for a discussion because it would have such an impact. Anyway, it was those 15 days that made me realize it must be a joke, but for that 20 minutes, I completely fell for it :lol: :lol:

Of course, for those who didn't read the spoiler - there is no coarse language or secret revelations of PyTom's world domination plans :P

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