CTR Hero

[semewelamb]

What does CTR stand for?

It doesn't stand for Chase The Rich or Crash Team Racing(my favorite racing game ever). It stands for Choosing The Right(for those of you who don't attend The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints).

The basis of this game is choosing the right and my audience is directed toward children and children at heart.


Art & Sound:

Most of the pictures and all of the audio and clipart I will be using from Microsoft Office Clipart online. (apparently I can do that since this is a non profit game and I own a legal copy of Microsoft word and I will give them kudos in the game).

I will use some pictures from lds.org.

There will also be some pictures I have taken and my CTR Hero character(made him myself. Haven't named him yet. Any suggestions are welcome).


Scenarios:

These will be taken from the Primary handbooks on lds.org(Primary=children's church class).

I'm hoping to have about 20 scenarios for the game.


This will be completed by November 2011 so the kids can have it for Christmas.

[semewelamb]

Current Statistics:

The game contains 90 screens of dialogue.
These screens contain a total of 1,368 words,
for an average of 15.2 words per screen.
The game contains 18 menus.

[Taleweaver]

So, this is essentially a VN with a Mormon religious theme aimed at children? Not that I don't respect the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and their beliefs, but... is it necessary to shove religion of any kind down the throats of kids?

We've already seen at least one VN with a religious agends, "Teachings of the Buddha", and I wouldn't mind the theme itself, but to specifically address children with a religious message makes me more than just a little uncomfortable. We're mostly adults on the LSF, but if your game featured Muslim teachings instead of Mormon handbooks, I'm sure you would get loads of negative feedback here.

[Aetheria]

So, this is essentially a VN with a Mormon religious theme aimed at children? Not that I don't respect the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and their beliefs, but... is it necessary to shove religion of any kind down the throats of kids?

We've already seen at least one VN with a religious agends, "Teachings of the Buddha", and I wouldn't mind the theme itself, but to specifically address children with a religious message makes me more than just a little uncomfortable. We're mostly adults on the LSF, but if your game featured Muslim teachings instead of Mormon handbooks, I'm sure you would get loads of negative feedback here.

I don't think that this game is necessarily "shoving" religion on children. Pretty much any child who grows up in a religious family is already going to be taught about their religion by their parents, and if that doesn't qualify as throat-shoving (well, unless you're Christopher Hitchens, I guess) why would it be untoward to make materials to teach kids about religion, assuming they would be presented to them by their parents?

Now, if it were a game designed to attack other beliefs and induce kids to convert (like Jack Chick tracts or PETA's comic books telling kids their parents are murderers if they eat meat) - well, that would be another thing. But something like this would presumably be used by Mormon parents to teach their kids, and while I heartily disagree with their religious beliefs, I can't see that a game like this could be offensive.

[Taleweaver]

Now, if it were a game designed to attack other beliefs and induce kids to convert (like Jack Chick tracts or PETA's comic books telling kids their parents are murderers if they eat meat) - well, that would be another thing. But something like this would presumably be used by Mormon parents to teach their kids, and while I heartily disagree with their religious beliefs, I can't see that a game like this could be offensive.

Then think my example through. What if "CTR Hero" was named "The Prophet's Hero" instead and featured typical Wahhabi teachings as they are taught to children in Saudi Arabia? What if "choosing the right" meant "choosing to stay away from infidels" in these teachings? What if the choices involve recognizing other interpretations of Islam as twisted and wrong? Religion has

so much potential

for promoting the superiority of one group over another that I don't think children should be proselytized, especially not if the religious content comes in the form of a game.

[clannadman]

@Taleweaver - Whilst I'm an agnostic myself, you have to be tolerant of the decision to include a religious message in the game. Nearly all media contains some kind of message, whether it's anti-war, love conquers all or humanity is doomed. He's entitled to create a game based on his beliefs and has just as much right to promote them as we have to promote themes and issues in our games. I'm also a little concerned over your referencing of a potential Islamic game twice, although I'm sure you're just referring to the extremist divisions that advocate hostility. By any means, from my understanding of the Mormon faith there won't be anything that most people would believe to be immoral and you have to trust that at the end of the day, the audience (even children) have the capacity to decide what they believe for themselves.

[Aetheria]

Then think my example through. What if "CTR Hero" was named "The Prophet's Hero" instead and featured typical Wahhabi teachings as they are taught to children in Saudi Arabia? What if "choosing the right" meant "choosing to stay away from infidels" in these teachings? What if the choices involve recognizing other interpretations of Islam as twisted and wrong? Religion has

so much potential

for promoting the superiority of one group over another that I don't think children should be proselytized, especially not if the religious content comes in the form of a game.

I would simply respond that I don't think all things one can claim as "religious beliefs" are equally valid and equally to be tolerated - for example, you can't get out of jail by claiming your religion tells you to mug old ladies. Moreover, as any religious person would tell you, there is nobody who believes in "religion"; there are only people who adhere to one particular religion. It would be ludicrous to accuse the Dalai Lama of being in cooperation with the Taliban simply because he is a religious man.

If we were to establish that the Mormons were going around teaching children things that are destructive to society, like blowing up infidels, that would be a good case against giving such a game room on the site. Another reason might be that religious games stir up controversy... obviously! Otherwise, I still don't see a reason not to allow it. This isn't a site that caters to small children, so I would hope that anyone reading this forum would be old enough to cast a critical eye on whatever games they played.

[semewelamb]

So, this is essentially a VN with a Mormon religious theme aimed at children? Not that I don't respect the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and their beliefs, but... is it necessary to shove religion of any kind down the throats of kids?

We've already seen at least one VN with a religious agends, "Teachings of the Buddha", and I wouldn't mind the theme itself, but to specifically address children with a religious message makes me more than just a little uncomfortable. We're mostly adults on the LSF, but if your game featured Muslim teachings instead of Mormon handbooks, I'm sure you would get loads of negative feedback here.

This isn't a game to "shove" religion down kids throats and I'm not attacking anyone or trying to brainwash people. I'd relate it to Veggie Tales(one of the best kids shows in my opinion). An example of what to expect in my game is: Should I steal some candy? Yes, or No, or Cluck like a chicken. I'm not making this game to offend anyone. It's like a What Would Jesus Do game. Personally, I wouldn't be offended if anyone else made a game with any other kind of religious teachings whether it be Muslim or Buddhist or any other religion as long as it is not mean spirited.

I also realize that religion is going to be one of those topics that people argue about. This game is not saying one religion is better than another. It is just based on LDS values. If someone doesn't agree with it then that is their choice. No one has to play this game if they don't want to. But I hope that we can all be tolerant of our differences whether they be religious, political, or otherwise.

[semewelamb]

@ everyone

I appreciate all the comments and opinions of everyone on here. It's nice to know we can have these kinds of discussions in a mature manner.

[Taleweaver]

...and you have to trust that at the end of the day, the audience (even children) have the capacity to decide what they believe for themselves.

That's where we disagree. An adult audience has this capacity. Children might not.

I'll try another example to explain to you why this makes me uneasy: The material for this game comes from Primary handbooks used by the LTS, as semewelamb tells us. Would you, as a parent, have no qualms with people from the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints approaching your kid playing in the street and offering him these handbooks without your knowledge? I would.

[Taleweaver]

Personally, I wouldn't be offended if anyone else made a game with any other kind of religious teachings whether it be Muslim or Buddhist or any other religion as long as it is not mean spirited.

Neither would I. But why is this game specifically targeted at children? This is my only problem.

Children are easy to influence (that's why many ads are specifically targeted towards them). I really don't think religious teachings belong into a game that targets them.

[Aetheria]

I'll try another example to explain to you why this makes me uneasy: The material for this game comes from Primary handbooks used by the LTS, as semewelamb tells us. Would you, as a parent, have no qualms with people from the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints approaching your kid playing in the street and offering him these handbooks without your knowledge? I would.

I don't think that hosting a thread about the game on the LSF forums is equivalent to that scenario. To download a game from here, a person would have to actively seek out the forum, read threads, and pick out a game - hardly the same thing as being approached by someone on the street. If it were given to children, it would presumably be given by someone with the responsibility for educating them, in which case they would already be teaching them about LDS doctrine.

Personally, I wouldn't be too upset if someone actually did hand my child religious materials on the street; I would hope that I'd raised the kid well enough that he or she would tell me about it and we'd discuss it rationally.

[Aleema]

Not sure how common this is where you're from, Taleweaver, but in America, religious products aimed at children are pretty common and is not a controversial thing usually (so long as it's not, as he said, mean-spirited). That doesn't mean it's inherently right or should be accepted at face value, but mucking up this guy's thread just seems like ... well, mucking. Maybe you should start a new thread?

[semewelamb]

Personally, I wouldn't be offended if anyone else made a game with any other kind of religious teachings whether it be Muslim or Buddhist or any other religion as long as it is not mean spirited.

Neither would I. But why is this game specifically targeted at children? This is my only problem.

Children are easy to influence (that's why many ads are specifically targeted towards them). I really don't think religious teachings belong into a game that targets them.

It is targeted for children because it is a Christmas present for children that go to my church. The people in charge of primary will play it and then the parents can play it and decide whether or not they want their children to play it. Ultimately, it's the parents decision whether or not their children play the game.

[sake-bento]

It appears that semewelamb plans to offer this to children already being raised in an LDS environment, so I don't consider it to be shoving things down anyone's throat. Plus, semewelamb has been kind enough to offer us full disclosure rather than sneakily pretending it's "just a kid's game."

I'm not a Mormon, but I think given this context, this game is okay. I'd also hope that if someone did post a game with Muslim teachings, we'd be welcoming.

If you guys want to continue this conversation in a new thread, that would be fantastic, since I do find it rather fascinating.