Love Revolution, uh, revolution

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Tralu
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Love Revolution, uh, revolution

#1 Post by Tralu » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:57 pm

I'm looking to revamp Love Revolution, since it's pretty much dying a slow, ungainly death at the moment. Soooooo, if anyone's interested, we need:
-programmers
-coloring artists

(Actually, after reviewing Ren'Py, it looks pretty trivial, so maybe a coloring artist is most important right now.)

What's left of what was done in the previous iteration can be seen at:

http://www.umich.edu/~jdcruz/loverevo/

The character development I'd like to keep, but lot of it is going to be redone from the ground up, I surmise, especially in dealing with programming.

I'll talk about this more, but I'm kinda moving today, so I'm typing this and packing at the same time. Toodles!

Contact me at salad.days[at]yahoo[dot]com if interested.

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#2 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:04 pm

Are you willing to implement the game in Ren'Py? Assuming the game doesn't contain anything extremely unusual, like additional mini-games or something, then Ren'Py could probably do anything you need (or will "learn" to do what you need). I'd be willing to help out as a programmer if you're willing to use Ren'Py

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#3 Post by Tralu » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:08 pm

Yeah, actually I was reviewing Ren'Py just now. It looks suitable for the revamped project.

I'd drop this whole thread, but I'm still interested in finding a good coloring artist. There's a lot of art made solely for the game that I'd rather not see go to waste.

A sample of the kind of work you'd be dealing with.

Image[/img]

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#4 Post by BCS » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:14 pm

Hmmm .....

Well, I'm not sure if I'd want to do the Tenchi Muyo fan game (already starting a fan-project of mine, and being embroiled with that - additionally, having to draw all the images being a major pain in the ass. But just coloration isn't so bad)

Do you have any kind of deadlines to meet?

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#5 Post by PyTom » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:18 pm

I'll just add that I'd be willing to make reasonable accomodations to Love Revolution in Ren'Py, on the off chance they should prove necessary.
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#6 Post by Tralu » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:36 pm

BCS wrote: Do you have any kind of deadlines to meet?
Chances are that it's very likely. They'll be slack, for sure, but there are so many pieces of art that are already made that we'd definitely need to keep them in check.

And thaks, PyTom. I'll keep that in mind if werun into any issues. :)

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#7 Post by BCS » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:57 am

Well, can't start until I'm finished with the other art, I'm doing already. Sorry. Maybe mid-July or so, if I'm still feeling fresh.

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#8 Post by monele » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:27 am

How many pictures would need coloring overall ?

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#9 Post by Tralu » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:29 pm

Let's see... seven characters, plus about three outfits each, plus about four or five emotional faces each, I think. It's a rather large number.

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#10 Post by BCS » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:11 pm

Faces are very rapid to do, once you have the eyes nailed down. I can do a whole set in about 2 hours (per character). But each individual outfit can take an longish amount of time, depending on the details involved in "inking" the lines digitally. Addtionally, characters can take a while too. That's about 21 pictures ... and if you're adding in the fact that most artists have day jobs, and free time is often found in the middle of the night, you're not going to have many people lining up for a deadline that's not a reasonable length of time away.

Let me ask: does anyone here have a vector program besides me, and can do good clean lines that aren't wobbly? Preferably in a common, accepted vector format. I haven't looked at Flash 8's list lately, but it imports an absurdly large number of formats. I'm pretty sure if one vector program can make it, Flash 8 can take it.

Sometimes, it is very efficient to get a sketch artist (which you already have, apparently), an inkist, then a colorist. Sort of a production-line wossname. Streamlines the work.

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#11 Post by mikey » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:33 pm

BCS wrote: ... and if you're adding in the fact that most artists have day jobs, and free time is often found in the middle of the night...
This is so true! And it's not only artists. It's 1:30 a.m. and I am in front of the computer, working on my project. I should be watching TV or something ^_^...

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#12 Post by BCS » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:45 pm

mikey wrote:
BCS wrote: ... and if you're adding in the fact that most artists have day jobs, and free time is often found in the middle of the night...
This is so true! And it's not only artists. It's 1:30 a.m. and I am in front of the computer, working on my project. I should be watching TV or something ^_^...
I missed the last episode of Evangelion that I'd been trying to watch for months, just to finish a sprite D:

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#13 Post by Tralu » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:01 pm

BCS wrote:That's about 21 pictures ... and if you're adding in the fact that most artists have day jobs, and free time is often found in the middle of the night, you're not going to have many people lining up for a deadline that's not a reasonable length of time away.
Whoah whoah whoah. I never said anything about an unreasonable deadline. I used to color these things in myself before I got bogged down with work, so I know how much time it takes to complete a set. Like I said, deadlines are slack, but they're there because I've had problems with artists not completing anything whatsoever.

Also, inking's not really necessary since the finished models are already inked by the artist himself. The image I sent was probably misleading on that part; that was just a sketch as an example of his work.
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#14 Post by mikey » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:01 pm

With outside artists, even if you set a deadline, you can only hope that the person is going to keep his word and do it. Everything is voluntary. It's not like you can threaten to divorce them ^_^

And it brings me to another point - outside artists have typically much less connection with the project. Some projects want the artists to impress them, but I think the opposite - the project should impress the outside artist. Simply because you're asking them to make something for you. So you better have a good bargaining chip.

IMO, currently, with all the failed projects, a complete text-only functional game is the bare minimum for that bargaining chip. Sure, you can sweettalk the artist into making the graphics, but the thing is - the motivation will come from the vision of a complete project. If the artist won't see any solid proof, I think a loss of motivation and unfinished graphics are only natural. And I wouldn't blame or criticize them for this.

Actually, my very VERY first project that never got finished, I also thought that my artist was lazy and didn't give a damn about the project. But the fact was, I never gave him anything solid - just a design document and some promises about how everything is going to be great, how many good people are on the team and how we're already testing this and that.

Anyway, the project, as it seems, is going to get redesigned and moved to another engine and so on - and that's a great thing. But many artists will probably require that art-less playable full version before committing themselves. Without that, they are just coloring pictures that might or might not make it into the game.

But, of course, every designer works differently, and some don't like the "wireframe" approach. As far as I go though, I just wouldn't know what else to give the artist to convince him.

I don't want this to sound mean or anything. In fact, I'd really like to know what the status of the project is, whether there's a new team and so on... it's usually the scepticism that comes with a huge project, but I can never really push away the enthusiasm and buzz whenever someone uncovers an ambitious plan, especially if it's the mother of all fan-made dating-sims. :P

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#15 Post by BCS » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:11 pm

mikey wrote:With outside artists, even if you set a deadline, you can only hope that the person is going to keep his word and do it. Everything is voluntary. It's not like you can threaten to divorce them ^_^

And it brings me to another point - outside artists have typically much less connection with the project. Some projects want the artists to impress them, but I think the opposite - the project should impress the outside artist. Simply because you're asking them to make something for you. So you better have a good bargaining chip.

IMO, currently, with all the failed projects, a complete text-only functional game is the bare minimum for that bargaining chip. Sure, you can sweettalk the artist into making the graphics, but the thing is - the motivation will come from the vision of a complete project. If the artist won't see any solid proof, I think a loss of motivation and unfinished graphics are only natural. And I wouldn't blame or criticize them for this.

Actually, my very VERY first project that never got finished, I also thought that my artist was lazy and didn't give a damn about the project. But the fact was, I never gave him anything solid - just a design document and some promises about how everything is going to be great, how many good people are on the team and how we're already testing this and that.

Anyway, the project, as it seems, is going to get redesigned and moved to another engine and so on - and that's a great thing. But many artists will probably require that art-less playable full version before committing themselves. Without that, they are just coloring pictures that might or might not make it into the game.

But, of course, every designer works differently, and some don't like the "wireframe" approach. As far as I go though, I just wouldn't know what else to give the artist to convince him.

I don't want this to sound mean or anything. In fact, I'd really like to know what the status of the project is, whether there's a new team and so on... it's usually the scepticism that comes with a huge project, but I can never really push away the enthusiasm and buzz whenever someone uncovers an ambitious plan, especially if it's the mother of all fan-made dating-sims. :P
Everything that you've said sounds pretty true to me.

I've been working myself on a game just for the script alone. Sometimes, I think having an overall plot helps too, so that even if you feel "stuck," you still know where things will go regardless of how you feel about the integrity of an individual scene.

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