Selling Games

[Lily-Rose]

Is it possible for anyone who has made a game on Ren'Py or RPGMXP etc to sell the games. My friends said you could, but i thought it would lead to copyright issues as you are making money from a program someone else created.

[ShiraiJunichi]

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person
obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files
(the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction,
including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge,
publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software,
and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so,
subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

Looks like Ren'Py itself is free to distribute, or sell. And I assume when it says you need to include this copyright notice with any copy of Ren'Py, that it's understood that this copyright will only apply to Ren'Py code- anything of your own creation you may put under any liscense you want.

But then there's this interesting quirk...

Please note that the above license only applies to Ren'Py
proper. A binary distribution of Ren'Py contains a number of other
packages, each with their own licenses, which you may be bound to
comply with when distributing a Ren'Py game.

In which case, you'd have to research all of the listed software liscenses to see what limitations there are...

man I hate this legal stuff...

[PyTom]

Basically, it's okay to sell Ren'Py games. I think that if you made money with Ren'Py, it would be nice if you shared some with me. (Which would probably go to defraying the costs of Ren'Py development, hosting the archive, etc.) But that's not required.

To satisfy the legal requirements, you'll want to go to:

http://www.bishoujo.us/renpy/dl/lgpl/

download the files there, and either include them on your CD (if you're selling the games on CD), or else make them available from your website.

[Alessio]

Aside from legal issues, personally I'd find myself considering more than just Ren'Py for contributions. PyGame and Python, for example.

(Actually, considering how much work was put into all those parts that allow my tiny, tiny little game to run makes me feel very humble. I'd actually feel guilty making money off my work, unless I had developed a huge VN that required a comparable amount of work. But then again, if selling VNs would lead to more VNs being released, it maybe wouldn't be so bad after all. ^_^)

[rioka]

:agrees with Alessio: If you're going to make money, particularly if you turn a profit, out of something that's offered for free - I say share the love and give back to whoever was kind enough to provide it.

And if you don't turn a profit, provide what you can like a free copy of the game or something. ^^

[PyTom]

Aside from legal issues, personally I'd find myself considering more than just Ren'Py for contributions. PyGame and Python, for example.

Both worthy causes. Also, don't forget the SDL guys.

(Actually, considering how much work was put into all those parts that allow my tiny, tiny little game to run makes me feel very humble. I'd actually feel guilty making money off my work, unless I had developed a huge VN that required a comparable amount of work. But then again, if selling VNs would lead to more VNs being released, it maybe wouldn't be so bad after all. ^_^)

True. But that may not be the way to think of it. I've been working on Ren'Py 4 -5 for two years, give or take. Call it 100 weeks or so. In that time, we've had 18 Ren'Py games released. That's 5.5 weeks per game. So if you've worked for more than 6 weeks on your project, your contribution to that project is greater than my amortized contribution to the project. The crossover point probably more like 2-3 weeks, since there were many times when I wasn't working on Ren'Py.

[papillon]

It might be nice to have a 'suggested donation' somewhere, although no one's really made it an issue yet. If I were developing a commercial Ren'Py game - and who knows, I might someday, for the cross-platform bonus - I'd want to donate *something*, but not a profit-share (I don't do royalty splits if I can help it, I don't like to complicate my accounting). And with no guidelines set, someone might offer up a fiver and someone else might think that was insulting.

[PyTom]

It might be nice to have a 'suggested donation' somewhere, although no one's really made it an issue yet. If I were developing a commercial Ren'Py game - and who knows, I might someday, for the cross-platform bonus - I'd want to donate *something*, but not a profit-share (I don't do royalty splits if I can help it, I don't like to complicate my accounting). And with no guidelines set, someone might offer up a fiver and someone else might think that was insulting.

The problem is, I don't know what to ask for. I can guess that the engine is probably about 20-30% of the work developing a game for scratch, which is why I feel a little justified in asking for 10% of what the game makes, if people ask me for a number. But I don't know how to turn that into a single number.

That being said, anything a successful game-maker donates would be nice. And I'm not the sort of person who demands an accounting of things. The way I see it, there are two kinds of people in the world: Good people, who I can trust, and Bad people, who aren't worth my time. Someone who would cheat on accounting would fall into the latter category.

It's not like I'm into this for the money, anyway. I have a job, and also sometimes take paid consulting work. Ren'Py is a hobby, and a pretty damn fun one... it's just that it seems to me that sharing the wealth is the right thing to do.

(Wow... it's really hard to talk about these sorts of things in public.)

[bookie]

All I know is that I'll be eternally grateful that Renpy is free to use, and games made with it are free to distribute. If by some freak chance I make money off my games (need to finish them first!) I know I'll be sending some of it to PyTom. Actually, I think making an enjoyable game itself is a good way to show thanks, which is why sometimes I feel bad that my genre of intrest clashes a bit with most of the community.

[RedSlash]

How about giving PyTom the rights to sell your game on a ren'py bundle CD? Donation would help him cover some hosting costs, esp. since he hosts all the games for free.

[Ukio]

Hello... I'm from Argentina so my english it's not good ( I speak spanish)... jejje sorry about that... and this is my first post here...
Well, I work making profesional games from a time and I know some things that can be useful ( I think) for all...
Maybe you know this but, the use of MP3 in commercial products requires you to get a license from Fraunhofer and Thomson Multimedia, who own the MP3 decoding patent. At time of writing, this is a flat fee of $2500 per game, but only if more than 5000 copies are sold. For up-to-date information, check the mp3 licensing website here:http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/games.html.
The easiest solution is to use OGG for your music and sound. OGG is better in quality (It's true!) and the file size is small... and the best of all: is free to use it in commercial proyects!
Maybe this could be useful for someone... maybe

PD: Sorry about my english skills...

[Ukio]

It might be nice to have a 'suggested donation' somewhere, although no one's really made it an issue yet. If I were developing a commercial Ren'Py game - and who knows, I might someday, for the cross-platform bonus - I'd want to donate *something*, but not a profit-share (I don't do royalty splits if I can help it, I don't like to complicate my accounting). And with no guidelines set, someone might offer up a fiver and someone else might think that was insulting.

Well... let me give an example...
There is a 3D program called Blender on the Internet (http://www.blender3d.com/). This is a free tool today but in the past was a shareware program. The author of Blender lost the license of the program and for a time he was under legal disputes with the corporation asociated to the distribution of Blender.
In a web page, the author post a message: if the user give the money to pay for legal fight, he wil give Blender free forever with the promess of upgrade the program...
The result was an avalanche of donations and the legal problem was resolved in short time...
But the people is donating until today and Blender in now a tool more incredible than 3D Studio Max (a 3D tool of $900 or more!) and is free for all (commercial and free use) and currently have a 3D game making tools to make incredibles games!!!!
In more recent days Blender was used in films like Spiderman... so, in the past a modest tool... today a professional 3D program... think on the upgraded features... Amazing... and the users make coding colaborations too!!! ( is open source)
All that was posible for the donations!!!!! and all of us, the author and the users, live happy forever... jejjeje

This is just an example... Ren'Py is an incredible form to make a professional game... so... well... could be a similar story... jjejeje all is posible if all colaborate...

I'm a cartoonist... and one time, I found Ren'Py... well... let me say: The most incredible day of my recent life... jejjeje I say to my self: "Interactive comics comes true!!!!" and here I am... jejjeje

PD1: A professional game needs professional graphics, professional plot, professional sound... and a professional engine... Well, PyTom do the hard work with the engine... let's do the best with the rest of our games! This is the only way the sell a game.
PD2: Again... sorry about my english... If you don't understand my posts... that is the reason... jejjee

Bye all from Argentina!!!!

[nspired]

This may be a dead-thread but I wanted to give some input anyway.

First, my first commercial game based on Ren'Py is out. I'll be posting more about this in a week or so when I have some other ducks-in-a-row.

Second, Kudos to Ren'Py for a great product!!!!!

Third, as an Indie developer...

I think a Donation Button would be great and after earning some $$ partially off of Ren'Py, I would donate.

I'd be less comfortable with a % than a fixed amount. The % would require on-going and presumably manual tracking and distribution - a lot of folks probably would not want the hassle. I think you'd get more donations with a suggested fixed amount.

Perhaps $99.00?

Additionally, I would like to see an official "Developed with Ren'Py" or a
"5-Star Ren'PY Developer" icon that a donater could use on products and websites. Now, I know this next thing I'm going to say smacks of SEO, but hey that is the sandbox we are playing in on the net. The aforementioned icon could link back to Ren'PY.

If there is still thought of a donation button, I might volunteer to help (I'm familiar with PayPal).

If there is an interest in the icon idea, I might also volunteer to at least attempt making a few...

[DaFool]

Wow, congratulations! I can't wait to find out more about this game. (Coincidentally, I recently got fresh credit cards in the mail. Hmmm...)

Yeah, a PAYPAL link was in the old version of the website. Maybe it might be time to split the Ren'Py Games into FREE and COMMERCIAL, with only the FREE section under wiki control, then it won't feel so obtrusive to stick that DONATE button back in.

[DaFool]

A follow-up...

Since this forum, the Wiki, and the Ren'Ai Archives host everything related to Ren'Py, you might be able to do the % after all. Find a click-through counting system (which I don't know a thing about btw), and let the Ren'Py site be a means to advertise your game.

(Just to let you know the term 'visual novel' in Wikipedia links directly to Ren'Py. Wikipedia cannot link directly to a commercial company--in a promotional way--, but through Ren'Py...YEAH LOOPHOLE!)