How Bad is a Bad Review?

[applegirl]

I always wondered, what would be better of the two: no comments in a thread or a bad review. I know people pour their heart and soul into their VN, often spending countless hours writing/editing/drawing/coloring/etc. But after uploading it and waiting impatiently for a response, what would be worst? To have no one respond and even show that they bothered to check out your work or to have someone angrily tear apart your work as though everything was complete garbage?

I've seen a few threads here where literally there was no feedback given for ages. But I've also seen threads where the VN just gets ripped apart (bad art/bad writing/poor gameplay). Is it a motivator? I always wanted to write reviews for each VN I've read, but there are some where I can't think of anything good to say. Even if the VN isn't that bad, it's kind of hard to just write that nothing disappointed me or exceeded my expectations without feeling kinda like a jerk. Even for commercial VNs, which I think really need reviews out there for promotion and for people to know which are good/bad. I can't help but feel like I'd be hurting the indie maker by writing a poor review and that takes the wind out of my sails completely. I mean, if you came across a site with only positive reviews, wouldn't it seem a little biased or incomplete?

I guess I'm asking all you VN makers: which is the lesser of two evils? I know moderation is best, but when you come across no comments or a bad review on your game...is it a bit personal? Or can we separate ourselves from it and just take it as fact that not everyone can like something we make?

[Auro-Cyanide]

Bad review. Easily.

1. If your game really is legitimately bad and you don't know it, it's probably kinder someone tells you. It's like having something on your face.
2. You are never going to get any better and get the praise you want if no-one tells you what's wrong.
3. You should be aware of your faults. Being aware of your own strengths and weaknesses is a happy medium in which you can produce the best work, or at least be realistically aware.
4. At least you know someone played your game?
5. If you only want praise, then you are doing it wrong. Praise is earnt, not automatic.
6. Yes, everyone is not going to like what you make, just as everyone probably doesn't like you. And that's okay.

But that's me, I know others have different opinions. Does someone saying something bad about your work hurt? Yes, like hell. Hurts even more when you know it's true. My mother is my worst critic, I have never meet anyone more tactless than her. She called this massive image I did in pastel that took me weeks to do 'club hand' because she thought the hand looked stunted. Didn't help that I used my own hands as reference. I was still in high school. It hurt, but you learn to laugh about it. I believe that if you stick something in the public domain, you kind of have to be prepared for both the good and the bad, and anything is better than nothing. If you first be honest with yourself, you usually understand what people say and since I want to be better, I listen.

*This is in reference to legimate bad reviews, not trolling.

[Soraminako]

I always wondered, what would be better of the two: no comments in a thread or a bad review. I know people pour their heart and soul into their VN, often spending countless hours writing/editing/drawing/coloring/etc. But after uploading it and waiting impatiently for a response, what would be worst? To have no one respond and even show that they bothered to check out your work or to have someone angrily tear apart your work as though everything was complete garbage?

I've seen a few threads here where literally there was no feedback given for ages. But I've also seen threads where the VN just gets ripped apart (bad art/bad writing/poor gameplay). Is it a motivator?

I don't know how others would feel, but just reading that it's possible to spend months developing something and have it get either no response whatsoever or it be torn apart like garbage... I was all giddy and feeling like making a wip thread about my game, now I'm all wary and like I got a bucket of cold water over my head. lol XD j/k

I think having it torn apart like garbage is far worse than no feedback. No feedback might still give you some hope that maybe your game is of an obscure or unpopular genre and simply didn't find its niche yet, so it makes you still have hope and try posting it in another place.
But if the only feedback you ever get is someone angrily tearing it apart... then I don't know if I'd ever bother making and posting a second game. ^^; Or if I make it, I might be tempted to share it in a limited way and elsewhere, in hopes of finding a more welcoming public or something.
Especially if it's a first game and there were many difficulties in making it.

I'm talking about a game for which the person really put a lot of effort, of course. Not one that was slapped together quickly as a test thing without trying much. And I'm also talking about flaming/unfair reviews rather than correct criticism.

On retrospect I realize you were probably speaking more broadly of negative reviews in general (including real/actual criticism as opposed to just angry flaming), but since your initial question mentioned the option of no reviews vs. bad ones angrily tearing the game to pieces, that's how I ended up answering.

It's not about criticism being unwelcome, or about someone not telling you that the game is bad if you don't know... but even the most "criticisms-are-welcome!" person would feel hurt by receiving only violently negative feedback and nothing else.
Especially since actual/real criticism is very different from the "tearing something to pieces" thing. Criticism is generally worded in a more constructive way (and is meant as help and not to vent off anger) and is offered & received more gently, while someone really "angrily tearing something apart" is only hurtful to the creator and not constructive. ^^; But in many places, people sometimes cross the line from one to the other when attempting to give people criticism.

I'm talking about free games though. Commercial games are, well, commercial, so they are expected to provide more. Ripping a free game to pieces in a review can be gratuitously cruel depending on the game, but if you paid for something and it was utterly terrible, that's another matter. XD


When I criticize something, I try to remain fair and point out the things I liked in it as well as the things I didn't like... that way, it softens the blow of the things I didn't like. I try to at least find one positive thing to mention even if I have to say that everything else was horrible. XD After all, we have nothing to gain by discouraging fellow game-makers, when we can instead try to help them improve. ^^
And besides, by pointing out what we feel that the person did right and what we feel they did wrong, it might be more helpful than just saying what we disliked and leaving them to guess about the rest.
If the game neither disappointed nor exceeded any expectations, there's also always the moderate rating of halfway-there (if it's posted in a place where there are little stars or whatever to click), along with something like "it was nice, but [...]" or "I enjoyed it but expected more" etc. I guess? ^^;

[Wright1000]

There is something people should remember.
A professional critic never uses the word "BAD."
Once, a famous critic was shown a portrait to criticize.
The portrait was horrible. But the critic didn't say that directly.
He said "Fantastic! Beautiful! What a beautiful frame!"
He didn't say anything about the portrait which implied that it was bad.
A critic's job is to provide constructive criticism, not to hurt the feelings of the creator.

[Taleweaver]

Yup, bad review. Tear me apart. Give me your worst. I can handle it, especially if it's something serious I really overlooked. I don't like making the same mistakes twice. You may even mock me and my work if it helps me do better next time.

(Also, if you're a troll, I can have some fun hitting you back with irony and mockery of my own. And I just LOVE doing that ^_^)

[LateWhiteRabbit]

There is something people should remember.
A professional critic never uses the word "BAD."
Once, a famous critic was shown a portrait to criticize.
The portrait was horrible. But the critic didn't say that directly.
He said "Fantastic! Beautiful! What a beautiful frame!"
He didn't say anything about the portrait which implied that it was bad.
A critic's job is to provide constructive criticism, not to hurt the feelings of the creator.

That's actually incredibly unhelpful, and anyone listening to that critic could think he was saying:

Fantastic! [What a] beautiful picture! The frame is nice too!

A real critic's job is to tell the truth and give constructive criticism (which by the way, would be WHY the portrait was so bad he felt like complimenting the frame instead). Sure, a critic's job isn't to hurt the feelings of the creator, but their job isn't to go out of the way to avoid hurting them either. There job is to tell it like it is, citing examples. A professional critic sure as hell uses the word 'bad' if it is warranted, but they will explain WHY something is bad is they are professional after using the word.

Apparently your idea of a professional critic is someone who goes around damning with faint praise.

A critic's job is a service provided to customers and creators. It is both to help potential customers and viewers know if something is worth their time or money, and to help artists know where they are succeeding and where they are failing. Just picking out something they can give a tiny compliment about in the piece of work and saying nothing else is an incredible disservice, which may protect the creator's feelings (which are apparently perceived to be made of plasticine if you fear your words will damage it) but will damage their growth and allow them to keep making the same mistakes again and wasting their time.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Also, I was speaking about general bad reviews. If you talking about angry bad reviews I would expect the anger to be relevant and in perspective. 'I just wasted $20 on a crappy game that was not what it was advertised to be' anger is going to be very different from 'I'm a bit miffed about how this maker has dealt with something' anger. If someone goes around angrily giving bad reviews on everything randomly, I wouldn't pay them much mind. Their opinion becomes less valid.

I was also talking in regard to actual reviews, not just 'You suck. Please burn everything you have ever created and never try again', more like 'It was terrible and I'm going to list why'. At least the latter is useful. I understand Soraminako reservation because it's pretty natural to react that way to pain. A lot of people will have this reaction, I have this reaction. At the same time I believe I should suck it up because it's a part of posting online, it's apart of growing and it's a part of learning what you need to fix and what you need to stand up for.

*expanded because I got home and Soraminako reminded me of that niggle of fear that happens with bad reviews XD*

[Taleweaver]

I was also talking in regard to actual reviews, not just 'You suck. Please burn everything you have ever created and never try again'

Actually, these are the bad reviews I like best because I can safely ignore them while at the same time making fun of whoever is too dumb to understand my game. It's a win/win situation, only that both wins are me.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I was also talking in regard to actual reviews, not just 'You suck. Please burn everything you have ever created and never try again'

Actually, these are the bad reviews I like best because I can safely ignore them while at the same time making fun of whoever is too dumb to understand my game. It's a win/win situation, only that both wins are me.

Well, I suppose it's true that these are unlikely to actually hurt any feelings and are more likely to create laughter.

Frankly I generally don't get hurt, just annoyed for a while, mostly at myself if I know the review was true.

[Strum]

There is something people should remember.
A professional critic never uses the word "BAD."
Once, a famous critic was shown a portrait to criticize.
The portrait was horrible. But the critic didn't say that directly.
He said "Fantastic! Beautiful! What a beautiful frame!"
He didn't say anything about the portrait which implied that it was bad.
A critic's job is to provide constructive criticism, not to hurt the feelings of the creator.

Yeah, I remember seeing something similar in the Japanese anime Doujin Work, when people read a really bad comic and only praised the quality of the paper. That was funny, try that in real life and people will think you're a clown that's trying to be funny. As such, people won't take you seriously.

Only commenting on the frame because a critic has nothing good to say about the painting is the same as not giving a comment at all. Or even worse, it's being sarcastic to the painter.

If people want their work judged, then they must accept the good, as well as the bad comments. Otherwise, might as well just show it to their mom and dad, have them pat you on the head and say well done.

[Pugfarts]

I find that small message boards that have a dedicated group of regulars can get pretty harsh very quickly, especially regarding new people posting things that sound stupid at the time. This causes a lot of feedback to seem more like the people are actually mad at you.
That said, I think it's important to make sure you don't sound too angry about things. Taking a hit on the ego makes it really hard to see the constructive part of a criticism.

Personally, I vastly prefer - "this is a little lacking, you could try something like this, or this to flesh it out if you want." over "I'm going to make a negative assumption about this and then tell you that you're doing it wrong"
But then I'm mostly here to workshop ideas, rather than being told what to do.

regarding finished work I like when people start their suggestions with "Next time you should" opposed to "This time you should've."
Constructive!

[fleet]

Bottom line up front: My preference is a review with constructive criticism.

'Reviews' that state "you suck" without providing any constructive suggestions are worthless to someone starting out. I can't see where they would be helpful to anyone, other than building up the ego of the troll who posted it.
'No reviews' means either people didn't download and play the game, or that they did and didn't have any comments. Not getting any reviews is not helpful to someone starting out. I had to beg to get some comments on one of my first games. The reviewer did not sugar coat the critique, but did provide some useful suggestions (I ignored the suggestions about hiring an artist and a writer).

[Gear]

I think it's very important to include where the creator went wrong, what could have been better, and the like. But if the reviewer doesn't remember his/her audience, it can cause more problems. If you're reviewing a game by a fledgling VN creator, for instance, and you just slam and slam and slam, point after point of everything that's wrong, without even stopping to mention that you at least liked the music, they're likely to get discouraged and walk away from the project rather than continue. Not to say that the reviewer's responsibility is to hold the game maker's hand and tell them everything's going to be alright, since that's certainly not how it works in the real world, but you don't want to crush their soul under your heel, either.

[JustAnotherMe]

The appropriate way is to praise some of the good quality first. If you say that there's nothing to be praised, then you haven't think enough. For a critic, one must know the good in something too. If you always search for the bad, then that's it. That's the way you always think: the bad. (And officially you're a bad person. I really mean it.)
I think every game in here deserved to be praised, because regardless of how poor the quality is, at least it's there because of someone actually spend a time to make it, for people to enjoy, or for the creator to be better, or just for fun. But there's an effort, a time spent, and a piece of heart in it.
Because I'm a teacher (part time), I know that I must praise every little bit achievement my students get. If I always point out their mistake, never praise their goodness, then they'll close their world from me. If I praise them then I point out their mistake; in a good way, then I believe they want to learn. It's really hard to make a children learn something if they don't want to. And that's my job to make them actually want to learn. (Remember that we're all actually still a child inside)
And I think it's actually an etiquette anyway.
Sure, giving a harsh critique is needed if we want to be better, but the critique must be a sincere one. It must come from the heart. And I think we all must learn how to politely critique something. It's needed in the society. Not just here or in other forum. If you're a loser in the society... then... yeah...

So, what I want to say is, the one who say 'it's suck' is actually a sucker themselves. They're already a loser in many ways.

[Mink]

I respectfully disagree. If I'm reviewing something on my blog, I am under no obligation to say, "Well, ___ was nice." And why should I? One GOOD thing doesn't magically excuse nine bad.

Or to put it the way a reviewer put it (in reference to Superman Returns): a pile of crap with whipped cream and a cherry* is still a pile a crap.

If you never want to get a bad or harsh review, don't put something out there for the public to see, because everyone is not going to be nice or like it; they don't have to. And trust me, I could be a lot more harsh than I generally am.

*The 'whipped cream and cherry' part is reference to the airplane scene. And even that is stupid, if you stop and actually think about it.