People quitting a project

[Patty]

I'm not sure if this thread is in the right section... Feel free to move it if it isn't.

Have you experienced people quitting in a project?

My friend and I were planning to do a visual novel. She would do some of the story and help with writing the script, while I'd partially do the script, and coding, art, and finding free music for use. That was what was agreed on starting this October. The visual novel was still in the state of dreaming and thinking: "This is gonna be the best VN ever!". We were still joking, and she told me the visual novel should be good because we were gonna attach our names onto it as the authors...
However, as the project grew on... She started to help less. I kept writing and fixing the slightly complicated story, and tried to improve my art and looked for some good music to use when I got stuck with the script. When I would ask for some help on the script, she'd reply "Later..." or "Send it to me and I'll look at it this weekend."
Today I was trying to get her to help me since I was having a bit of a writing block just when I finally tied together the start and some of the middle parts of the script. I was kind of ignored at first since it was busy due to sports and there was a lot of talking going on with two friends.
She wrote some stuff, and apologized to me. She told me she was sorry, and she's lazy...
I kind of wanted to explode...

Moving on from that wall of text... Have you experienced people helping or offering to help you on your project, and quitting in the middle/losing interest? How did you react to that situation? If you haven't experienced that situation, how would you react supposing it happened to you?

[Wright1000]

No need to cry. That happens a lot.
But I wonder why you are calling her a "friend" even after she betrayed you.
Remember this: The best helping hand in your life will always be the one at the end of your arm.
Stop relying on others too much. You can write the story yourself if you concentrate. If they said that they will help and now they don't want to help you, that means they are traitors. Don't bother them and just leave them alone. When you will complete the project, they will be ashamed of themselves.

[ScottySeng]

I fully agree with Wright1000. People are going to leave a lot, and you'll just have to accept that.
Hence why I work on Visual Novels alone.

I've agreed to help people with a project they started, and they ended up abandoning their own projects. Well, they didn't reply to me for several months, so I'm assuming they abandoned their projects.
I may be slow, but I haven't abandoned the projects I agreed to help on.

@Patty
I'm curious, will you still write your "friend's" name in the credit for the Visual Novel even after what she just did?

[SusanTheCat]

I've been on both ends of that equation: had people bail on me and I've had to bail on other people.

Here is how I keep sane:
When someone bails on me:
Throwing around words like traitor and betrayal will hurt the friendship. What is more important: the project or your friend?

Remember that life happens. New stuff comes up that gets in the way of the project. I believe that at the time the person made the promise, they were totally honest about wanting to work on it. Maybe they have something else going on in their life, maybe they didn't realize how much work doing a visual novel was. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

When I bail on someone:
I try to remember to bail early. I let them know that I won't be able to fulfill my promise. This is really hard because I want to do it. I try to tell them as soon as I realize that I can't help so that they aren't stuck in the same limbo that you were.

Susan

[VagueZ]

People's interests change over time. She lost interest in the project. You didn't.

Don't consider it a betrayal. She's not interested in working on the VN any more; unless this was planned to be a much more commercial venture than you've mentioned here, it was just something to do for fun, right?

If it's no longer fun for her... well, yes, that's going to be irritating and frustrating for you, but do you really think it would be better to make her keep working on something she doesn't want to do, but is supposed to be fun? Especially consider that in light of how much more of the VN there is to do; from what you said I don't know how long this has been going on and how much is left. Of course you're going to be mad, but I wouldn't take it out on her.

Try not to say anything you'll regret until you have a chance to cool down, then see where you two stand, and what you want to do with your VN.

[redeyesblackpanda]

Moving on from that wall of text... Have you experienced people helping or offering to help you on your project, and quitting in the middle/losing interest? How did you react to that situation? If you haven't experienced that situation, how would you react supposing it happened to you?

I always work expecting them to fail/quit and make contingency plans. It isn't really possible to expect people to be reliable 100% of the time, because things happen. I agree with the others who said that this is no reason to break a friendship. Holding grudges can make your life very happy. At the most, I would say that you should just make a mental note about your friend's reliability/commitment.
Also, I disagree with the people that say that your friend betrayed you. It's not like she actively sabotaged the project by smashing your computer or something.

[MoPark]

I actually shut the project down if I notice the others aren't working. This is usually so I can restart it later myself as a purely individual project, without having to get them involved. Hasn't hurt our friendships, but I'm not working with them again.

[Thelo]

I always work expecting them to fail/quit and make contingency plans. It isn't really possible to expect people to be reliable 100% of the time, because things happen. I agree with the others who said that this is no reason to break a friendship. Holding grudges can make your life very happy. At the most, I would say that you should just make a mental note about your friend's reliability/commitment.
Also, I disagree with the people that say that your friend betrayed you. It's not like she actively sabotaged the project by smashing your computer or something.

redeyesblackpanda has got it completely right. Friends volunteering their help, then quitting later is just something that happens, and in fact it's the default state of things. It happens much, much more often than you'd think. The simple fact is that it's easy to say you want to help at first, but it's hard work to continue helping over time, and unless you're actively paying them, it's only natural for your volunteer friends to drift away from the project over time.

It might sound a bit nihilistic, but you really should always expect volunteers to stop helping at any point, because it's just what happens in the vast majority of cases. In the past two years, I've had about thirty people propose their help with my projects, of which about ten ended up actually doing anything, and of which about four ended up being genuinely helpful. I've heard that the volunteer drop-off rate in other projects is similar.

In my case, since I actually can finish the projects without outside help, what I usually do when a friend quits on me is tell them that if they ever feel like helping again later, they are welcome to do so. No sense in busting a friendship over it, and sometimes (rarely), the friend in question actually does change their mind later on and starts helping again.

[Deji]

It has happened to me a few times. I'm an artist, I've never been good at writing, so I asked two writer good friends to collab with me.

The first time, I waited two years for my best friend to actually write anything past Day 1. It was my diploma project. He had been my best friend for about 10 years, but we grew apart after we graduated from high school. I ended up breaking my ties with him after he promised to show up for the final project presentation and he didn't show up nor call, he just wrote an email two days afterwards. So much for a best friend, I guess it was always a one-sided devoted best-friendship anyway =(

The second time, we created the characters, the setting, everything together. We had meetings, we discussed things and took notes, I invested *a lot* on those characters. I waited, and waited and waited and waited.... and in the end I said "You know what? Screw it, I'll write it myself! You go back to write all your stories you never finish." And I did my best to learn how to write decently and I'm still trying to write it every now and then. I sent the first draft of the first week of the story to her for revision like a month ago, and she never got back to me with feedback.I guess she was too busy writing and drawing Homestuck fanarts for Tumblr events =_=. I love her, I'm just never going to try doing things with her again =/

Bottom line, don't work with your close friends, what you are passionate and invested about may just be something that just comes and goes for them and they'll move on to more fun/interesting/rewarding/shiny things for them.

[Taleweaver]

Duh, happened to me in a lot of projects, though I never started projects with real-life friends... with the possible exception of "The Thirteenth Year" as DaFool and I grew to be friends over the production of my VN "Adrift" and his project "Elspeth's Garden". Reliable people are hard to come by. I've had artists quitting on me, composers quitting on me, programmers quitting on me (the latter being the reason why I learned to use Ren'Py myself)... the important part is that you do not give up making games but continue to fight for your projects.

It has happened to me a few times. I'm an artist, I've never been good at writing, so I asked two writer good friends to collab with me.

Deji, we should do a project together. You're an artist who knows what it's like to have a writer quit on you and I'm a writer who knows what it's like to have an artist quit on you. It's a perfect match; we'd never let one another down. Also, you're VNs Now!'s Best Artist of 2011, and I wrote VNs Now!'s Best Drama of 2011. Can you have better karma?

[papillon]

Imagine the fun you have when you're paying people money and they still disappear! Sigh.

[jack_norton]

Imagine the fun you have when you're paying people money and they still disappear! Sigh.

Heh indeed I really found little difference between "pro" and "amateur/student". I think is more a character trait. When Rebecca worked on Summer Session she did a lot of work and was late just by a few weeks. And she remained like that, very reliable.
I recently contacted two people with impressive portfolios on DA, asking $50+ each waist up image (in practice almost double the standard price), but the quality was so good that I thought to contact them and offer to work for me. Both disappeared, AFTER they said "yes sure will send sketches in XX weeks".

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Imagine the fun you have when you're paying people money and they still disappear! Sigh.

Imagine the fun you have when you're paying people money and they still disappear! Sigh.

Heh indeed I really found little difference between "pro" and "amateur/student". I think is more a character trait. When Rebecca worked on Summer Session she did a lot of work and was late just by a few weeks. And she remained like that, very reliable.
I recently contacted two people with impressive portfolios on DA, asking $50+ each waist up image (in practice almost double the standard price), but the quality was so good that I thought to contact them and offer to work for me. Both disappeared, AFTER they said "yes sure will send sketches in XX weeks".

That's why I don't do work without contracts. It protects everyone for situations just such as this.

It lets both parties know the other is legit, and you have a real notarized document with real names on it for when money changes hands. Trust me, people don't flake when there is a legal contract with their name on it that lets you take them to small claims court should they break it.

My contracts all have escape clauses though, in case something comes up or they really no longer want to do business. That's also why I have a non-refundable 10% 'reserve fee' they have to pay up front, so if they choose to exit the contract after work has started I still get some money to recoup costs.

If someone isn't willing to sign a contract, they aren't serious or professional and you don't need the hassle. Notary services are free at most banks and it is only a few bucks to zip a couple of copies of a document back and forth quickly by Fed Ex or a similar service. I never start a job until both parties have a signed physical contract in hand.

There is also the old saying - "Don't go into business with friends. When it's over you won't have a business or friends." Established freelancers told me early not to accept work from family or friends and it was great advice. Just don't do it. If a family or friend wants art from me, I'll do a piece for their birthday or Christmas, but never for money and never where they can ask for changes. Family and friends will want discounts and it general will be more demanding and treat you worse than total strangers.

[papillon]

.... People do disappear with contracts as well

[LateWhiteRabbit]

.... People do disappear with contracts as well

That's rather . . . depressing. But you have their actual name from the contract right? Can't you look them up?

I admit the problem is a little different from your end instead of mine, since as the artist, I always get that 10% reserve fee up front, so even if they vanish (and I assume they've taken the escape clause without telling me ) I still got some money from the situation and it wasn't a total loss.

In your case, assuming you don't wish to unleash the lawyers, I would just send a letter by certified mail to them stating that since you have not heard from them the contract is cancelled and you will no longer be needing their services and will be stopping payment.

I guess you do have more of an advantage than me as an artist in one department - you can be very picky about who you hire.