Pertaining to art: How much copying is copying?

[Glasskitten]

I discovered that while I am not very good at drawing from imagination, I can do a reasonably good job copying other drawings--especially if I trace over the basic shapes first and then duplicate my tracing freehand. I have done this before for practice, but I was wondering if the restrictions on using drawings produced in such a manner are the same as if I were using the original work. (Of course, I would need to vary the details, which in their original form would probably not be what I was aiming for anyway--i.e. I have in front of me a partial Barbie-doll type thing that was copied from a Tokimeki Memorial character portrait and was hoping to give it a variety of clothing/hair/face selections, probably copied from yet another source.)



On a related note, am I actually going to learn anything this way?

[yummy]

In terms of fan-based image drawing, it's likely possible to use them in a game since you draw them as long as it stays a fan-made production. You might compare it to doujin in Japan.
There are limitations though, it depends on the original artist consent. Plus, you can't announce proudly the work was truly yours since you copied a content from another media.
In terms of law, it is comparable to counterfeit if you plan to use your work as something official (I doubt you'd do that though).

Anyway, I used to copy some drawings myself when I first tried to draw manga like drawings and it helped me creating my own style (do you know Akira toriyama, huh?).
If you plan to do 100% original works, there is no secret: regular training and observation are the main skills for someone who draws sketches or the likes (CGs, paint screens...).
I know it's difficult to draw from imagination so the only one advice I could tell you is to focus on anatomy and movement. If you had a wooden mannequin for example, it's really helpful (mine is always by the computer, ready to endure torture sessions).
If you browse deviantart for example, there are more or less talentuous artists who have different levels, but no one really cares if something does not always please the eye. All what artists really care for is a vision of your work, how you achieve it and whatever the means you use to achieve it.

Gambarinasai ! (Brace yourself!)

[Haeleth]

You may possibly find it helpful to think of an analogy with text.

Consider that imitating someone's writing style, or being inspired by their story to write a similar one, is clearly fine, whereas copying whole sentences directly from their work, or copying their actual story and just changing the characters' names, is clearly plagiarism. By analogy, copying another artist's style, or drawing similar characters in similar poses, would be fine, but actually directly tracing their outlines would be getting into a grey area.

If in doubt, find some noncommercial work you like and ask the artist for permission to use it as a basis for your own drawings. That way you can't go wrong. :)

[DaFool]

I just go with non-trace principle. If it's based off an original posture, then its definitely something I won't want to get credit on, since people will most likely find the original picture on the net. But if it's a custom posture based off a copyright character, then its perfectly fine fanart.

[Adorya]

About the posture in itself, I don't think there is a "copyright" on it, even considered as a fanart. The original drawer probably used a RL posture photo and most mangaka use posture book references without putting a credit of the books in their manga (Rumiko Takahashi for exemple used chinese ceremonial kung fu photo mooks for Ranma 1/2, Takehiko Inoue said he was inspired from NBA shoots for Slam dunk and so on...).

Of course, if you spot an image with the same posture, with the same angle of view,and the same body proportion as another, it may be suspicious

[mikey]

Of course, if you spot an image with the same posture, with the same angle of view,and the same body proportion as another, it may be suspicious

Like this? http://beaulieu.free.fr/images/ami.jpg
Anyone copying that posture + angle of view + body proportion will be prosecuted!

Hmmm, also, can you copyright a hentai position? You know, when someone has a good idea for a sex scene involving a telephone, gummy bears and the bottom shelf of a library bookcase... (and if your version has Nutella instead of gummy bears...)

Yes, I'm being silly. But am I?

[Alessio]

(and if your version has Nutella instead of gummy bears...)

Then you'd get in trouble with Ferrero. :)

[RedSlash]

I think it depends on how much the final product resembles the original work.

I don't think postures or style can be copyrighted, since copyright protects works not ways of doing thing. That would probably be under patents, if patentable.

[Jake]

I don't think postures or style can be copyrighted, since copyright protects works not ways of doing thing. That would probably be under patents, if patentable.

Well... patents are supposed to protect inventions that are 'not obvious to those skilled in the art', it would be hard to argue that you've invented an entirely new way of standing around that isn't obvious to people who are experts in standing around or artists who are experts in drawing people standing around.

That said, while copyrights do cover works rather than ideas, there is the concept of a 'derivative work', which IIRC is protected under current WIPO law. The way I understand it (not being a copyright lawyer but it being an area I'm interested in) it typically works as thus: a character design is copyrighted, and any work featuring that character is claimed as a derivative work of the design, and thus an infringement of the design's copyright if published without permission by another party.

Similarly, I would expect that there is a possible case - particularly for media companies with their armies of lawyers - for arguing that a picture that copies the setting and postures and composition of an existing picture is a derivative work of that picture... quite where the line is drawn I wouldn't like to guess.