Community Project for a VN Community: Website Discussion

[redeyesblackpanda]

So, in terms of visual novels, we have sites like vndb.org, a wiki with information about various games, lemmasoft.renai.us, a forum for visual novel creators and enthusiasts, similar forums, but there still seems to be a need for something else.

This is the reason that I've created this thread. I created a thread a while back about offering free hosting for people with VN related sites. This in not the answer though, I believe that we need something else. What? Well, like I said, that's what this thread is for.

The sorts of things to consider:
Do we need a forum for the discussion of VN games?
Should we have a directory of VN making groups?
Should we have a central website with VN related news?
Is there a way that we can set up mirrors so so that there's redundancy and the site is resilient?
Should the site host games?
Should the site have infrastructure to help those selling indie VN games?
Should we offer subdomains for VN groups?
Should we offer hosting to people with their own domain names?

Really, I'm interested in all of your guys' inputs. These are just questions that I've come up with, but I doubt I've addressed everything. I have neither the skills, nor the time to do this alone, and believe that this sort of thing will only succeed if backed by the community.

At this point, this is what I can contribute:

I have acquired the domain name vnovel.com (cost me about 30 weeks of eating out )
I have an unlimited hosting plan with GoDaddy.com
I have the domain name hellpanda.com (probably not relevant)
Coordination. I'm willing to spend my time organizing people and getting everyone connected for a project like this, if it's needed.
Spunk?

Anyway, I hope we can have a valuable discussion about this. I think it'd be a good thing for the community.

[Samu-kun]

Between
http://renai.us/
and
http://planet.renai.us/

I think we've got most of the bases covered. Although renai.us really could use a renovation. That thing's been using the same interface for... I don't even know how long. It's like a blast from the past! I don't even know whether people are even supporting it any more.

Of course, nobody's really stepped up to renovate it in all the years people have complained about how old it is. Anyone know how to make websites...?

[PyTom]

I'd love to hand renai.us off to someone else. I haven't had time to do anything but approve games in the past couple years, at least.

[redeyesblackpanda]

I wish I knew how to build websites.
Anyway, one concern that I think some of us have is that we want to build in redundancy. The way things are, the EVN community is relying on just a couple people. That's, at least, one reason that I think we need some sort of community driven website. Also, planet EVN is a collection of blogs, and renai.us mostly hosts or features games. These are both good things, but I believe that we can go farther and cover more.

All of us are busy people, but if we were all to put what little time we have together, we'll be able to accomplish great things!

[Sapphi]

I have some experience with HTML and CSS. Coding webpages was one of my favorite hobbies way back in junior high. Mind you, I never learned to do anything really fancy, and my preferences for webpage design are pretty bland and old-school anyway, but I am at least familiar with it...

[silenteve]

I was a little weirdo in fifth grade and I got into HTML then :p
I played around with frames and div (never got around to tables, never understood CSS) and made a few web layouts with crappy graphics I messed around with in paint (and I didn't understand how to credit work back then.) They're sitting somewhere on an abandoned website I come back to every once in a blue moon to remind myself of my shame.
This one, I was always kind of proud of :p

http://www.freewebs.com/the_anime_freako/acl02.htm

I always thought the Renai.us site was fine, with the layout and all. I mean, it's old, but it works. It's simple enough to navigate and that's all I really care about. It's not like it's neon green with purple sparkles floating on every page.

When you say VN, do you mean all VN (Japanese and English) or just the ones that were made for free or what? Is there some criteria the visual novels have to fall under or is it just a giant umbrella that everyone can fit under?

[redeyesblackpanda]

Actually, I think that's another question that merits discussion. Personally, I rather like the idea of a large umbrella.

Anyway, I wasn't thinking that we'd be replacing renai.us at all. Like I said before, renai.us is pretty much a list of EVN games, and it's run by one person. I think that our community has room for more than that.

What? Well, in my mind it could be something like a directory of VN related news, a listing of VN groups, and a forum geared more for the players (since this seems to be a problem that lemmasoft has been having for a while). While that's what I, personally, have in mind, I think that others will have different, and probably better ideas of what the community needs. What we have now may be enough for some people, but I'm not sure that it's enough for all of us, and I think that if we get together as a community, we might be able to fix that.

[SusanTheCat]

I'm willing to help as a web application developer. I make websites work, I don't make them pretty.

Personally, I would like to see a review site with other game suggestions. (Others who liked this game also liked ....) And yes, I am willing to code and moderate it.

Susan

[silenteve]

I think if you're going through with this, it should be a site that similar to VNDB:
There's a list of games released. Tags are placed for each one, including whether they are free, commercial, demos etc. Genres, language, and that sort of thing. Players of the games are able to rate the games but also be able to drop reviews. I'm thinking like an IGN sort of thing, with an average rating in a visible place. That way, if there are picky players, they can choose which games to play depending on the summaries, reviews, ratings, etc.
At the end of the year, we could vote for VN of the year or something ^^ Like the Emmys

If you want it to host games, that's just a plus. But I think the use of mediafire, google, dropbox etc are fine.
You can offer domains to VN groups but there should be a criteria for that. Some people who begin projects don't follow through so maybe you should think about letting people with a game or two already released to get one. That way, it's more of a sure thing that they'll stay active. Also, you can use this as a way of advertisement. There's a main site, and floating around the corners could be the websites that you have hosted in advertisement form. So banners, buttons, etc, for the people that are hosted within your site. Or other websites that are dedicated to making games but are not under your domain can have their corner too. Most of the ads should be indie games I think. Help them get their name out there

Having the VN news on the same site is fine. Once again, I think that games with a defined release date or games with some considerable progress should be on the news, not just games that aren't fleshed out properly and are simply in speculation. I'd like it if I can look forward to a game and not have it ripped out of my heart the next day when they've decided not to go forward with it.

Just wondering: Is this a site where it's run by one person (or at least a group) or by the entire VN playing/making community? If it's a group, I think it should be a dedicated group of people (obviously) or maybe veterans of the VN scene, with many games on their belt (playing-or-making-wise). Letting just anyone run the website may be a good idea but then their sources must be defined (think Wikipedia) for their news to be credible.

We could always use lemmasoft if we wanted to. I mean, whenever I come to the website, there's a link to a page that's supposed to be the central site that redirects to the forums. I'm not sure what's going on there but if it's not going to be used, we could just turn that into the main website. Then it'd be connected to the forums, so people can go and check out possible games being released soon That's just a thought I had.

Anyways, this is just me rambling on about possibilities. Just speculation on how the possible website could be like. (I just made a bunch of references to different websites. I guess what I'm saying is that all these websites should be somehow combined to fit the subject matter of visual novels.)
I have little to offer. (No money and I've got school :p) but I like the idea of organizing the website or contributing to it.

[leon]

I wish I knew how to build websites.

I wish you would stop saying that. You have myself, SusanTheCat and probably a lot more standing behind you. Just tell us what to build.

Do we need a forum for the discussion of VN games?

I'm not sure one/a simple forum will do. I think the moderation for each game should be up to the game creators...

Should we have a directory of VN making groups?

What about individuals?

Should we have a central website with VN related news?

With http://planet.renai.us/, I don't know if there is much need for another one. Maybe a specific game-centric news aggregator would be needed?

Is there a way that we can set up mirrors so so that there's redundancy and the site is resilient?

I think this is very important. If this grows big, technical issues or even data loss would be very bad. It can also allows this, to be more open, to who can contribute; if someone leaves, things keep running while another mirror is added.

Should the site host games?

With http://renai.us/, I'm not sure if there is really a need.

Should the site have infrastructure to help those selling indie VN games?

What did you had in mind? Something like a shop or a review site?

Should we offer subdomains for VN groups?

Should we offer hosting to people with their own domain names?

I think so. http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=14718 People just don't realize they need this...

[Bto3]

This is a really awesome idea and would love to see it happen. I don't have a whole lot of input at the moment, but maybe for the VN Making Group/Individuals section, do a two line blurb about what kind of VNs the group typically produces? If there IS something the group focuses on. Something like...
Girly VN
Girly VN produces otome games both with and without adult content.

I agree that domains should have some basic criteria such as having two games released, or one with viewable progress on the second. It could be a flexible rule though, like for someone who's working on a big VN and has plenty of progress to show for it, showing that they're dedicated and the project WILL get done.
Maybe request that the person has at least a home page ready to be uploaded, if not all their pages?

Good luck with this! I could offer web page building help, but you definitely seem to have that base covered.

[leon]

This is a really awesome idea and would love to see it happen. I don't have a whole lot of input at the moment, but maybe for the VN Making Group/Individuals section, do a two line blurb about what kind of VNs the group typically produces? If there IS something the group focuses on. Something like...
Girly VN
Girly VN produces otome games both with and without adult content.

I think this would need more stuff to be really useful - like contact data, list of games...

I agree that domains should have some basic criteria such as having two games released, or one with viewable progress on the second. It could be a flexible rule though, like for someone who's working on a big VN and has plenty of progress to show for it, showing that they're dedicated and the project WILL get done.
Maybe request that the person has at least a home page ready to be uploaded, if not all their pages?

I'd rather see as little limitations as possible. Creating a subdomain is free for the domain owner. If they don't build anything on it, they only wasted 5 minutes of someones time. If there will be abuse, some rules may be needed. But so far there was no interest...

Good luck with this! I could offer web page building help, but you definitely seem to have that base covered.

Well, redeyesblackpanda's in charge, but I think all the bases are covered yet. For now the question is still open - "what does the VN comunity need?".

[redeyesblackpanda]

I wouldn't say that I'm "in charge" but I have been doing most of the general management and pushing of this at this point. I'm not against it, but I'd prefer if we could generate enough interest to have this become a community effort. I'm not opposed to having more people help, because I think that getting more minds involved in this is a good thing. If any of you are interested in chatting this over Skype, my username is my Skype username as well, and we have a small (at the moment) chat group. I agree that the biggest question is "What do you all want?"
I understand that not everyone feels that there needs to be any change, but I believe that there are still those that believe that the VN community could use more. If you're of the latter opinion, please do write something here.

[Bto3]

I think this would need more stuff to be really useful - like contact data, list of games...

Maybe like this then?

Girly VN <(Clicking this would lead to their site/an info page/SOMETHING with more info
Girly VN produces otome games both with and without adult content.
GirlyVN@email.com | Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

List a couple games, but not so many that it's cluttered? I suppose it depends how that page/section would be organized though...

I'd rather see as little limitations as possible. Creating a subdomain is free for the domain owner. If they don't build anything on it, they only wasted 5 minutes of someones time. If there will be abuse, some rules may be needed. But so far there was no interest...

That is true... hm.

[leon]

I think this would need more stuff to be really useful - like contact data, list of games...

Maybe like this then?

Girly VN <(Clicking this would lead to their site/an info page/SOMETHING with more info
Girly VN produces otome games both with and without adult content.
GirlyVN@email.com | Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

List a couple games, but not so many that it's cluttered? I suppose it depends how that page/section would be organized though...

I wasn't thinking how it would look yet actually, just what extra data would be useful. I think the listing can be left simple, with contact data and games on another page.

I think a list of games is something that makes such a collection useful for gamers and contact data for the developers so they can contact other developers.

If all games are entered, the listing could also display a list of all games.