Conversational 'styles' as a game mechanic

[Morgan_R]

So, this isn't for a visual novel exactly, but something similar -- definitely a 'story-based game.' I'm planning on having conversations be almost tactical, and as such there are different "styles" you can unlock and use.

My tentative list of styles:

diplomatic
blunt
intimidating
persuasive
empathetic
sardonic
sincere
charming

Each time you level up, you'd get to pick another style from the list.

Each style would provide additional dialog options in certain conversations. So there will always be a couple of basic choices, and a couple of 'style-based' choices that are hidden unless the player has access to that style. And those choices may or may not be more effective -- it's up to the player to try to figure out if, say, the 'intimidating' choice will work on a particular character, or backfire and lead to a fight.

I'd love to get some feedback on this, particularly on my choice of 'styles.' Also, references to any other games that have done something like this would be great. At the moment the closest thing I can think of is Long Live the Queen with its 'court manners' and 'flattery,' but it's really not that similar.

Edit to add two styles, strike the original progression mechanic, and add a question:

Given that you're picking and choosing which style to take every time you level up... would you want to see the dialog options you can't choose (yet)? So you can get a sense of what the different styles do? (They would each have their own icon, so you could hopefully keep them straight.) Or would that be annoying/distracting?

[gekiganwing]

You stated that you're creating a story-centered game. Now I'm wondering just what it will be. Interactive fiction? Graphic adventure? Role playing?

The first game I thought of which has "conversation style" choices was The Bard's Tale 2004. During dialogue sequences, there will be occasional choices, and the player's response can either be snarky or nice.

[Morgan_R]

Well, it's a theoretical game, at this point. It would be web-based, with chunks of second-person text followed by a list of links that act as choices. So... it's kind of like a visual novel minus the visuals, and heavy on the interactivity. Except it's more of an 'open world' than most VNs -- you'll be able to wander freely between locations, do various jobs, earn money, buy stuff, etc. Meanwhile, the game will throw semi-randomized story hooks and romantic interests at you. But if you really want to ignore them to, say, max your pastry-making skills and save up enough to open your own bakery, more power to you -- and you get the "You're an Awesome Pastry Chef" ending.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard of that one!

[Gear]

Reminds me of Dragon Age II's dialogue wheel that drives your character's personality. I really liked that concept, and this one seems pretty cool, too (though knowing me, I'd spam sardonic and seldom if ever use anything else).

[Victoria Jennings]

Reminds me of Dragon Age II's dialogue wheel that drives your character's personality. I really liked that concept, and this one seems pretty cool, too (though knowing me, I'd spam sardonic and seldom if ever use anything else).

I did exactly that in DA2. Always picked the middle option. xDD

[Gear]

So did I. It spawned such awesome remarks like "One week! Can we not go one week without meeting an insane mage?!" Double funny points because I was a mage myself. XD

[gekiganwing]

Well, it's a theoretical game, at this point. It would be web-based, with chunks of second-person text followed by a list of links that act as choices. So... it's kind of like a visual novel minus the visuals, and heavy on the interactivity. Except it's more of an 'open world' than most VNs -- you'll be able to wander freely between locations, do various jobs, earn money, buy stuff, etc.

Sounds like your game concept is almost all text. That might make it into an online gamebook. There isn't very much difference between a gamebook and a visual novel. In fact, there are two freeware games which don't have any character sprites or backgrounds -- One Week and Digital: A Love Story. In those examples, the line between gamebooks and VNs becomes really blurry.

I believe that at least a few people have written free worksafe CYOAs ("Choose Your Own Adventures," named after the famous series), but even after a couple web searches, I had trouble finding examples. For instance, there are only 29 examples on the website Chyoo which are in the non-erotic category...

If you want your game to work online, then you might want to use the development tools created by the people at Choice of Games. I don't know if they can help you make your game as non linear as you want... Maybe you will benefit by using tools meant for interactive fiction / text adventure games. TADS 3 and Inform 7 are the most recent engines.

[Morgan_R]

Ah, I actually recently found a site with a bunch of CYOA-style games: http://chooseyourstory.com. I've been using it to prototype some ideas, but for the full game I'm planning to build my own engine & web-based editing environment.

ChoiceScript could conceivably work... but I'd end up building so much on top of it, I think I might as well build from scratch. I haven't looked into IF tools much, just because I really dislike the text-parser mode of interacting with a game-world, and that seems to be what they're all about.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback & suggestions!

[saguaro]

This reminds me of Knights of the Old Republic II.

As you increased your stats, you would have access to special dialogue options that were tagged with the attribute they were related to. e.g.:

- I don't know what's wrong with it, it's just broken.
- [Intelligence] Looks like the energy cell is damaged.

I really liked the feature.

[Morgan_R]

Interesting! And good to know that it worked well.

[Veniae]

Yeah, I think that idea would work. It sounds interesting and I'd love to explore how the various styles work with different characters (unless I decide to stick to sardonic xD).

The list looks rather fine in my opinion! My only concern is that because of the somewhat subtle differences between some of the styles (eg 'blunt' and 'sincere' - these could easily overlap), it would be a pain to distinguish between them in your writing. But aside from that, they're not too few and they're not too many, at least for me, so - great!

[Morgan_R]

Yeah, sardonic is going to be a fun one. Not as likely to win friends & influence people, though!

With regards to overlap, I sort of have an idea as where each pair would be used. So, blunt (and diplomatic) are likely to come up when you're saying something negative, while sincere (and charming) are likely to come up when you're saying something positive.

E.G.:

"Does this dress make me look fat?"
[Diplomatic] "Of course not, dear, but the green one compliments your fair skin so well..."
[Blunt] "Only around the middle. Why don't you wear the green?"

"So... how do I look?"
[Charming] "You look divine, my love, like an angel come to walk among mortals."
[Sincere] "Wow. You look... beautiful."

Of course, communicating the difference to the player, in advance, could be an issue... hm.

[Dim Sum]

Not true to 'conversation' styles:

Hex Coda

WE RECOMMEND creating a new character when you start this module. At level
one you'll be assigned a new feat that lets you choose a custom combat
animation set, as a bonus!

http://pixelscapes.com/hexcoda/

ROTK series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWYi5dA1jPY

Criticism:

#1: diplomatic

Does not work because most game designers fail at diplomacy. Especially diplomatic tactic.

Instead of diplomacy, many games turn out to be patronizing.

Best examples seen of vgs using diplomacy: Fallout 2 and Ronin: Kensai of Kyoto (also NWN mod)

Suggestion: suggestive (introduce idea/introduce ideals) vs sycophantic (passively agree, try to steer conversation into other person making a suggestion)

#2. blunt

Does not work because game savviness tend to imply "don't piss npc off".

Tends to lead to under-used option because often times there are much safer alternatives that unlock the same effect. Roleplayers tend to compensate by treating 'attack' as blunt.

Suggestion: goading (safe blackmail like mocking, friendly taunt) vs integrinizing (expressing loyalty or honor regardless of true intention much in the way certain heroes will say no to leaving anyone unhelped because they made an oath regardless of true intention)

3. intimidating/Persuasive

Did not participate in thread: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... /4774102/1

Suggestion: Smart-ish (acting like a know it all) / Brawl-ish (daredevil/risk taker/bar brawler personality)

4. empathetic/sardonic

Felt like a character breaker in Winter Wolves Loren Amazon Princess demo cause the concluding conclusion for why the characters chose those dialogue choices end up being different than in my mind thus ending up making the characters more annoying.

5. sincere

Kinda makes the characters seem to be more of a mind reader.

Suggestion: http://www.lifetrainingonline.com/blog/ ... ccount.htm

6. charming

Too powerful ...or too easily nerfed.

Suggestion: Conniving (con-artist/selling the dream) vs. Radiant (always smiling/optimistic/hot-blooded/suave)

Edit/Just remembered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrirEuHxLd8

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/game/index.php
-Petition
-Distribute Literature
-Wear Symbol
-Display Symbol
-Meet with
-Publish Newspaper
-Dramatize

[Morgan_R]

Thanks for the links and extensive feedback!

My response:

diplomatic: Just because it's been done badly, isn't a reason not to include it. 'Suggestive' has other connotations, and 'sycophantic' has negative ones.

blunt: This might end up being under-used, but I'd still like to provide it for roleplaying purposes -- and as a contrast to 'diplomatic.' Goading could be fun, but I would see it falling under 'sardonic.'

intimidating/persuasive: Thanks to the link to that thread! I can't tell if you're implying that this is another 'bad' pair, but if so, I don't follow your reasoning.

empathetic/sardonic: In Loren, you pick a style then find out what your character is going to say. I don't like that approach either. In this system, you'll be able to see exactly what your character is going to say before you say it.

sincere: This has to do with the character sincerely saying what they feel... how is that mind reading?

charming: How can this be both too powerful and too easily nerfed?? This is not 'charm person' style charming, just that you say things in a charming way... which may or may not help anything.

"Conniving" definitely reminds me that I haven't really provided for "shady" or otherwise deceptive characters in this... hm. Definitely something to think about... although I don't know if I necessarily want to give players the freedom to take that path.

[Dim Sum]

! I can't tell if you're implying that this is another 'bad' pair, but if so, I don't follow your reasoning.

I try to let that topic speak for itself but yes, it is implying that it is a pair that deserves criticism. (Bad is up to the impressions made on the final product IMO.)

This has to do with the character sincerely saying what they feel... how is that mind reading?

There are many real life incidents in the world where when one is trying to express sincerity, they are deemed insincere whether it is due to weird body language or otherwise.

Many videogame design tend to wrap around this idea that sincerity has some magical moral quality that can make another party correctly sense it regardless whether in real life the other party might just be trusting their gut, being gullible or believing another person because they are attractive/sound heroic/etc.

This commonly leads to sincere being a power instead of a self stated emotion that adds little to the conversation or worst, make it worse.

How can this be both too powerful and too easily nerfed?? This is not 'charm person' style charming, just that you say things in a charming way... which may or may not help anything.

I haven't played any game that is able to differentiate between the two.

Shady does not need to sound deceptive. Deception works best when it sounds sincere: http://saltydroid.info/scamming-two-debbies/