Writing Tip: Advanced Character CREATION

[heypetdragon]

Hi there! I just want to say thank you, this helped me with the 'Third Character' problem I have. When I read this, it cleared my perception with the other characters existing in the scene. At first, the third character's the 'always butting-in' side character, and it annoys me when I write it, (also annoys me when I'm the third wheel in rp) but at the back of my head this character's necessary.
I don't consider myself a writer, so this is a great help now that I'm trying to write my first vn script! Thank you!

[OokamiKasumi]

Hi there! I just want to say thank you, this helped me with the 'Third Character' problem I have. When I read this, it cleared my perception with the other characters existing in the scene. At first, the third character's the 'always butting-in' side character, and it annoys me when I write it, (also annoys me when I'm the third wheel in rp) but at the back of my head this character's necessary.
I don't consider myself a writer, so this is a great help now that I'm trying to write my first vn script! Thank you!

I'm glad I could assist in sorting out your character situation.
-- Oddly enough, no one ever seems to address this issue: the Third character. You see tons on the Protagonist and Antagonist, but nothing at all on the Ally even though they're always there -- even if it's just in passing.

[rabcor]

Really cool to have a character creation template like that, thanks!

On "ally" characters, i had never thought about it but the few times i had tried to write a story i always inevitably added them. I probably wont write many "Ally" characters that annoyingly butt in though, i favor thirds like Alphonse from FMA or Morgiana in Magi. The ones that slow things down, but don't get annoyingly much in the way (i.e. characters you still like! an example of one you don't like is Raki from Claymore, bad in the manga but even worse in the anime.). I also like evil sidekicks, like Rubilax in wakfu. Sword in zero no tsukaima is cool too.

But one thing that made me stop to think a bit was the ambitions part.

Should characters really always have ambitions? not having an ambition can be a part of a unique character, since they usually do have ambitions. And many real people don't have any ambition, neets like me should know. They often need to find it first or chance up on it. Some people spend their entire lives looking.

Let me think of an example character... Jonah from Jormungand is fairly close, he doesn't have any ambition at the start but later finds it. He had reasons for doing what he was doing, but he didn't have an ambition to work for until later in the series.

Oh a good one, side character but Mayuri from Stein's Gate doesn't seem to have any ambition, and that practically makes her the character she is.

Most of the strongest characters indeed do have ambitions (every character in Hellsing certainly does...) but what if you want to make a weak character like Mayuri? she's a bit of an oddity if i think about it, her only purpose in the story is to lighten the mood, and the atmosphere as far as i can tell, and she does exactly that pretty damn well.

There's also characters with changing ambitions.

For example, Guts in berserk, especially if you read the manga he's a very well developed character. His initial ambition is simply to survive (quite common right?) he gets picked up by a group of bandits and his ambition turns to wanting to be strong enough to fight with them. Then later on after various events, he loses all ambition, he goes blindly fighting for money, deliberately fighting anyone who might be stronger than him, trying his best to win while he wants to die, so he just gets an ego flaw of being suicidal but no real ambition. Then he finally gets defeated but not killed, and is forced into a mercenary band and now his only ambition is to serve the one who defeated him as best he can, to fulfill his promise of doing that if he were defeated.

Various things happen and his ambition turns into finding his own dream (or "his own ambition") to become an equal to the man who defeated him. More things happen and the ambition he finds is revenge, and his other ambition is defiance, defying death (survival all over again). Just for the protagonist to reach a real ambition that's less shallow than just "survive" you have to read several volumes of the manga. The old anime series didn't even get that far and that was 25 episodes (then cancelled because it caught up to the manga, but as you can see, enough story had been written to make a 25 ep anime out of it when the protagonist finally got a real ambition.)

That's character development i believe, in my opinion you shouldn't always set a characters ambitions in stone when you create it.

For example, in what i'm writing my protagonist will always have something "she's" working towards (temporary goals, commonly getting out of bad situations alive), but the plan (the most important part of the story) is to make her by coincidence build a faction of sorts. Sure, at a certain chapter she will get her ambition, to do what she can to work against slavery is what her ambition will finally be, but she'll get that ambition from events that happen during the story (not something she has from the start, but was pretty inevitable thanks to her background story because that's what i made her for). Thanks to this ambition the faction will be built, but that faction's goals are not the same as her ambition, her ambition and methods to work towards said ambition coincidentally lead to that faction's rise as more people joined her cause.

Do you understand what i'm trying to say? I don't think it's always good to write down a character on paper defining them completely before you add them or use them, because if you stick to that sheet too closely you may have ruled out all possibilities of character development am i wrong?

[OokamiKasumi]

Really cool to have a character creation template like that, thanks!

I'm glad you liked it!
-- The idea behind it is "Food for Thought," to make you really think about what makes the character take the actions they do.

On "ally" characters, i had never thought about it but the few times i had tried to write a story i always inevitably added them...

They create balance in a story, and are quite often used to show what is considered "Normal" among the characters. They're the yardstick the other characters are measured by.

But one thing that made me stop to think a bit was the ambitions part.

Should characters really always have ambitions? not having an ambition can be a part of a unique character, since they usually do have ambitions. And many real people don't have any ambition, neets like me should know. They often need to find it first or chance up on it. Some people spend their entire lives looking.

Very true, many characters Don't have an ambition at the start. This is often used as a way to show the character in "Situation Normal." However, those that remain without an ambition are more often than not an Ally character. Main characters, on the other hand, Do tend to Change their ambitions, or adopt 'temporary' ambitions at Crisis Points in either the story, or the episode.

Most of the strongest characters indeed do have ambitions (every character in Hellsing certainly does...) but what if you want to make a weak character like Mayuri? she's a bit of an oddity if i think about it, her only purpose in the story is to lighten the mood, and the atmosphere as far as i can tell, and she does exactly that pretty damn well.

Think: Is she a Main character, or an Ally character? (Keep in mind I have not read this manga.)

There's also characters with changing ambitions.
-- For example, Guts in berserk, especially if you read the manga he's a very well developed character. His initial ambition is simply to survive (quite common right?)

Very much so. However, this 'initial ambition' is in fact, Guts' 'Situation Normal' or Core ambition.

He gets picked up by a group of bandits and his ambition turns to wanting to be strong enough to fight with them.

Yes, and this happened at a Crisis Point.

Then later on after various events, he loses all ambition...

Also at a crisis point. He had just been Betrayed by the one person he trusted most in the world.

He goes blindly fighting for money, deliberately fighting anyone who might be stronger than him, trying his best to win while he wants to die, so he just gets an ego flaw of being suicidal but no real ambition.

Not True! He did indeed have an ambition: Suicide. However, his 'Core' ambition: Survive, would not allow him to simply cut his own throat, or not defend himself.

Then he finally gets defeated but not killed, and is forced into a mercenary band and now his only ambition is to serve the one who defeated him as best he can, to fulfill his promise of doing that if he were defeated.

A temporary ambition which feeds into his Core ambition. If he does not 'Survive,' he cannot fulfill his promise.

Various things happen and his ambition turns into finding his own dream (or "his own ambition") to become an equal to the man who defeated him.

Another 'Temporary' ambition, that feeds into his Core ambition. If he does not 'Survive,' he cannot become an equal to the man who defeated him.

More things happen and the ambition he finds is revenge, and his other ambition is defiance, defying death (survival all over again).

Remember, Survival was his Core ambition all along. Revenge is actually an 'excuse' to carry out his Core ambition; if he doesn't take revenge, he won't Survive -- they will eventually hunt him down and kill him. They even said so!

Just for the protagonist to reach a real ambition that's less shallow than just "survive" you have to read several volumes of the manga. The old anime series didn't even get that far and that was 25 episodes (then canceled because it caught up to the manga, but as you can see, enough story had been written to make a 25 ep anime out of it when the protagonist finally got a real ambition.)

What makes you think 'Survive' is a shallow ambition? In Guts' world, sudden death happened all the time. Battles, wars, and casual violence were a daily occurrence. Then add all the psychopathic monsters that liked eating people. Living past the age of thirty was pretty miraculous for someone that could actually fight. Normal people, on the other hand, were dropping like flies.

That's character development i believe, in my opinion you shouldn't always set a characters ambitions in stone when you create it.

I agree! In fact, nothing should be set in stone or characters will not have room to 'grow'. However, a character's Base ambition is the Center Mark that all later ambitions come from -- a 'Jumping Off' point.

For example, in what i'm writing my protagonist ... will get her ambition, to do what she can to work against slavery...

WHY she adopts this ambition is likely coming from her core ambition: 'To Help People,' or 'To Make a Better World.' That this is her core ambition is pretty obvious in just what you wrote.
-- Remember, your Subconscious is also helping to build this story, and one's subconscious doesn't always inform us of what it's really thinking.

I don't think it's always good to write down a character on paper defining them completely before you add them or use them, because if you stick to that sheet too closely you may have ruled out all possibilities of character development am i wrong?

I agree, sticking to 'the plan' isn't always the best way to go about completing a story, but WRITING a Plan can often jog things loose and make you consider options that hadn't even occurred to you, simply by bringing them to your attention and making you Think about them.

Also consider: Writer's Block.
-- If a writer gets lost in their story; can't figure out where to go next, simply reading over their notes on their characters and/or world-building, can snap them back into the mindset they had at the Beginning, when the story was fresh and new. (It's a trick I use all the time. Because writing a whole Novel can take six months to a Year, or longer, things can get muddled or just plain forgotten along the way.)