How do you organise your sprite layers?

[Auro-Cyanide]

Generally I go okay with organising my sprites and I have gone okay so far even when I have introduced more poses for the secondary sprites. However, since I've started the main sprites, things have become more complicated. Even with just the two different arm poses, 5 different outfits have made a bit of mess with the layers, plus the texturing I'm putting on top. Instead of just going base>outfit>arms>emotions>hair>texture>tinting, I suddenly have the clothing bases sandwiched between the arms to allow for them to change and I have 10 different texture layers.

So I'm wondering if there is a better way to organise what I'm doing. Would it be better to have a separate file for each pose to keep it cleaner? Or is it better to have everything in the one PSD? How often do you flatten your layers? I generally just want to have a sticky at other people's processes to see if anything might suit me. I am a little concerned how difficult they will be to save out too with everything being all over the place, so any opinions are welcome

[Deji]

For 2+arm positions on Flight of Twilight sprites we have:

- Base armless body
- Arms
- Outfits
- Base outfit <- flattened later, duplicated and masked accordingly
- Sleeves for each arm position
- Face

We do tinting inside the engine. I don't know how you'd do the texture, but I'd probably duplicate it and use a mask for different poses.

[Fungii]

> Face
- pose
--accessory
-- expression
> Clothes
- winter
-- each pose
- summer
-- each pose
- school/work
-- each pose
- sleep
-- each pose
> Base
- each pose
> Sketch
- dont go in here you'll get lost and die

I used to not have a photoshop that could handle folders-in-folders, too. Imagine trying to sort through all those layers without that ability

Personally I keep all my stuff in one PSD, and I never flatten anything just in case. Art paranoia lmao.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Hmm, yeah, it seems like I'm on the right track then. I guess it's just going to get messy by default XD

I also tend to have a fear of merging my layers but sometimes it just needs to be done for ease (I usually keep the layers in another file somewhere so if I REALLY need to I can go get them)



And god damnit Fungii, you reminded me I didn't draw sleepwear! *rushes off the finish drawing it*

[nyaatrap]

I often (not always. case by case) use flattened layer copies instead. Base layers are kept, but not used directly. Folders are like:

Code: Select all

costume1:
  costume
  flattened body + pose1
  flattened body + pose2
bases: #those are always hidden after drawn
  pose1: 
    .....
  pose2:
    ....
  base body:
    ....
  sketch

[MysteriousArtistX]

I usually only merge my color layers and I avoid flattening like the plague.
If I merge a line layer and a color layer it's usually for smaller images and details like an accessory or sometimes a facial feature.

Something I find helpful, though it might seem a tad strenuous, is I have a a habit of opening a fresh file and dragging/copying the images I need from the main file into the new file. It makes the process less messy and a little easier to not mix up layers (like the all too easy coloring int he wrong layer mishap) and focus.

So if I am working on the sleepwear sprites I'll only take those images and work on those poses in the new file. I'm not sure if I explained that too well but I hope it helps.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Hmm, yeah, it seems like I'm on the right track then. I guess it's just going to get messy by default XD

I also tend to have a fear of merging my layers but sometimes it just needs to be done for ease (I usually keep the layers in another file somewhere so if I REALLY need to I can go get them)

I use layer groups like that to keep things organized, but I also have separate PSD files for each outfit.

I go through the script and see what poses are necessary, then I do all my poses for a character in a master PSD file. (In which they are naked. My paper dolls have no undies! ) I tend not to have "emotion" layers because I incorporate body language into emotional changes, so each "emotion" is actually a different pose. I then further break things down by script and see what poses and emotions are needed in which outfits (because they won't all be used in every outfit) and then copy the required pose layers to a new outfit PSD and do everything from there.

So for each character I end up with a folder than has a master PSD file of poses and emotions in which the character is nekkid, then separate PSD files for each outfit, started by copying from the master PSD file.

And god damnit Fungii, you reminded me I didn't draw sleepwear! *rushes off the finish drawing it*

This also allows me to quickly glance in the folder and see if I am missing an outfit!

I do this to keep my layer count down so my computer doesn't choke and die over RAM on a massive PSD file, and so my brushes remain fast and responsive. Of course I mentioned before that I work in semi-crazy resolutions and downscale for final images. Even at 12 GB RAM, if I get past 100 layers while I have the Internet, my music player, and assorted programs going, I start getting slow down.

And I merge layers whenever possible - as Bob Ross would say: "Be bold. It's time to make a big decision!"

[bunbun]

I sort them in folders and name them

Clothes folder (pose2)
-casual folder
-outing folder
-etcetc
Clothes folder (pose1)
-casual folder
-outing folder
-etcetc
Expression folder (eyes, mouth and eyebrows)
-normal
-sad
-happy
-etcetc
Base folder(blank face, body, skin, hair etc)
-lineart for base objects
-coloring for base objects

If I'm only changing the position of legs and arms for pose, I'll copy the base and shading of pose1 to pose2, then erase and fix from there.
I find it easier to sort them in a file and hide/unhide folder when I need that expression
eg : hide all,unhide base,casual pose1 and normal expression > save in png file
^^

[Geckos]

I've recently run into the same problem. At least for drawing purposes, I've been trying to keep all of the poses on the same canvas so that the character looks like they're supposed to. (My canvas sizes are sitting at 5000x5500 right now with 35 layers LOL).

It just gets messy, I guess. I'm usually opposed to using Folders (too much of a V + right click addict), but I will probably be forced to once I get into various outfits (starting with 1 while I design/draw everybody first). Some layers are just awkward, since they're not "layered" correctly and never can be, based on clothing/hair/expressions/pose/etc but all you can do is keep it clean and save the final image looking decent.

Since I'm doing widely varied poses for each character, I've just been calling the layers by their pose names:
Shy - Lines
Shy - Clothing color
Shy - skin color
etc!

Keep up the good work, regardless

[Auro-Cyanide]

@LWR Yeah, most of my sprites are naked unless I know for sure that they will have only one outfit. I'm keeping the poses simple for this game since I'm only just starting to hit my stride and work at a decent pace, but next time I want to do something a bit more ambitious, in which case I think having different files for each pose would probably be a good idea.

And I merge layers whenever possible - as Bob Ross would say: "Be bold. It's time to make a big decision!"

Haha, I have been hearing one of my uni teachers a lot in my head lately telling me 'What is this scratching? You want to draw a line? Draw a line! Don't scratch at it'. But yeah, I try to commit to things when I can. It's not even that hard to fix things even. I just have to trust myself that I can redraw something I have drawn before if I need to.

@Geckos, I know what you mean. I draw at A4 and the main sprites are getting into the 100+ layers. Which is why I'm starting to think I need to merge a whole bunch of them XD But that's generally the problem I'm having. I need this to sit under that but have that bit over that other bit and it starts to get so confusing. I'm starting to think duplication and masks are my best bet.

[Deji]

How do you guys draw so big, I just can't ;O;
I guess I'm spoilled by the "This will only be displayed non screen and never printed, so what the hell~~ 8D" mentality >>;

[LateWhiteRabbit]

@LWR Yeah, most of my sprites are naked unless I know for sure that they will have only one outfit.

I draw all my characters naked, since that's how I start all my figures. Even if I know a character will only have one outfit, I start them out naked. That way I can give them another outfit later if I decide to.

It's very funny to see my first place-holder art version of a game, because it uses all the initial pose drawings of my characters, so they are naked. It's like a nudist version of my story world. It would be incredibly easy to have a "Nude Mode" in my games with no extra work on my part, but I'm not sure that would be too popular.

How do you guys draw so big, I just can't ;O;
I guess I'm spoiled by the "This will only be displayed non screen and never printed, so what the hell~~ 8D" mentality >>;

Personally I find it very easy, especially with the Navigator window in Photoshop and the ability to zoom in and out with hotkeys. It feels like working at any other size, because most of the time the drawing is the same size on my screen as it would be in a lower resolution - I can just zoom WAY in when I need to.

Partly I work so big because I am very mindful of "future-proofing". I've been gaming and working on the computer now for - oh, about 25 years. I've seen resolutions on screen sizes drastically increase, and artwork made for smaller resolutions look awful on a new computer. I like the fact that if I WANTED to, I could release a Super HD remake of my game years from now without any extra work on my part.

That and my current day job is in printing, so I print posters and magazines for other people, so I am highly aware of print requirements. I like knowing that I could print a poster or magazine quality booklet for my game and it wouldn't require any extra work, because the original files are more than high enough resolution for me to do so. Professionally, a LOT of the artwork I've been doing the past few years was destined for print as part of promotional materials or for school portfolios, so it became a habit to assume any art I create is going to be printed. It is also why I tend to work in CMYK most of the time.

I'd also like to think that at some point in the future I'll be able to publish an art book, and I want all my artwork to be ready for that.

[bunbun]

How do you guys draw so big, I just can't ;O;
I guess I'm spoilled by the "This will only be displayed non screen and never printed, so what the hell~~ 8D" mentality >>;

neither can I
I'm more of a SAI user as my pc can no longer support huge files on photoshop
it's kind of sad that I have to draw in small resolution, limited layers and always looking at the memory load percentage ;_;

[Lumen_Astrum]

I also draw in a low dpi since I rarely print them anyway XDD If I ever do need to print them, I just print as big as I can without ruining the quality.

To remain in-topic, I don't really care much how I organize sprite layers, since I only have two poses with two outfits anyway. There's a folder for each outfit (in WB's case it's usually uniform and casual), and there is a sub-folders in the outfit folder for each pose (two poses too for WB). I am pretty much a tracing maniac, you see. If I draw a new pose with one outfit (let's say I drew a new pose in the uniform outfit), I duplicate the lineart layer to the casual outfit folder and erase the uniform with the main points still intact (e.g. the hands, the shoulders, etc), then draw the new outfit. In case that's impossible, I just show the uniform lineart underneath it and trace the form then draw the new outfit.

The colors stick with the lineart of the outfits too, but the catch for me is that the skin stays underneath so it won't look confusing as heck. For your case it would just be better if you separate each pose in a new .psd, because if you keep making such touchups you might end up hitting some layer limit, if there is any.

[myapple]

I'm still a sprite newbie, but layer folders drive me nuts (too much scrolling), so I try to use as few a possible. Also, my SAI won't run if there are too many layers/folders, so i'm kind of forced to divide everything anyway OTL;

All sprite lineart gets drawn in the same file so I can make sure proportions and such are fine, and then from there I put every new pose (same torso but different arms counts as a new pose in my books) in its own PSD for colouring. The shading for certain things that remains the same over several poses gets copypasted from file to file (like hair,or the torso shading, etc), and then other things i'll reshade to give some difference to the sprites (usually only little things like eyes, or something shiny that might catch light differently if the character were to move though).
Dividing everything also keeps the file small even if you have to add several environmental masks or something that would make a file slower to load.

Typing this out makes it seem a lot more complicated that it actually is @_@ but it's the only way i've been keeping my hair on so far.